In your opinion, the best steel for the money

I felt similar to how he did and was desperate to get into those "higher end" steels. My first was O1 and i think if i could go back i would have chosen something even easier like say 1075 or 1084. New makers - such as myself - will probably not get what they can out of S35VN or the like. Personally if i was going that route I wouldn't heat treat it but send it off to Peters. Even now i'd likely do that as i don't have cryo.
 
O1 is good steel and easily heat treated, I've made a few knives from it. I like 5160 because it seems to do a little better in the forge than O1, at least for me anyway.
 
starting out and on a budget but has a kiln ok this makes things a hair easier to narrow and the learning curve is both grinding but also HTing (i had a kiln before a proper grinder )
carbon steel O1 dont need parks 50 or danger of water quench and can be tuned for use in just about any knife. price is not bad. remember even an ugly knife that is made with known steel and good heat treat can still be a great knife (it also teaches you alot of things due to narrowing possible errors )
SS 154cm yes i liek the cpm154 better and XHP even more so but less your ready to step up to some sort of cold treatment you are missing out on performance so i woudl not bother with powdered grades
 
The fact that we refer to 1084 as a beginner steel does NOT mean that It's only for beginners !! It's easy to forge and HT but it makes for a nice working blade ! Don't sell it short !
 
One of the most egregious falsehoods found on BladeForums is that 1084 is a "beginner steel". People need to stop saying that nonsense. It is one of the easiest for a beginner to heat treat themselves, but the steel is not a "beginner steel".

People moan and groan about the bad information found on Youtube, well that same critic needs to be applied here.

1084 is a very good blade steel and you will find many accomplished smiths who use it because it is such a good choice.

Tell your dad any proper blade steel he chooses is going to be better then he needs.
 
I've never felt that the consensus here is that 1084 is somehow inferior, just the most forgiving for diy heat treat. I think the point is kind of lost regardless, on someone dead set on "super steel" who hasn't made any knives to date. The more I learn, the more I realize how ignorant I am. This is not always the case with novices in any discipline. I don't think anyone new to knife making has a clue just how far down the rabbit hole you can go with it.
 
The consensus is not that it is inferior, it is the mantra that it is a beginner steel that is false.

What should be emphasized is that a person can easily heat treat 1084 at home, but they can also send any other steel they choose out to be heat treated as well.
 
Thank you guys again, for sharing some of your experiences, it was really cool to hear your thoughts and reasoning. I really appreciate all of the knowledgeable people that have responded, and have given insight. I plan on printing off most of this thread and giving to my Dad to read. I think he will come around to starting to understand and value the easier to heat treat and work steels. To where he can make a better decision later on, based on His experiences and learned preferences. It also really helps to have multiple experienced knife guys say the same things you've personally said.
 
AVigil said:
The consensus is not that it is inferior, it is the mantra that it is a beginner steel that is false.

What should be emphasized is that a person can easily heat treat 1084 at home, but they can also send any other steel they choose out to be heat treated as well.
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I think we are saying the same thing. I think most makers who have gotten into really looking at what makes a good knife understand this. I just don't think that this forum has to change the way it's referring to 1084. Why? Because the only person that's going to be misled into thinking "ease if ht" = "inferior" is also not going to have much in the way of practical knife making knowledge under their belt. If a new maker is dead set on spending top dollar on steel that will more than likely be ground into a turd, who could sway them? It kind of reminds me of the poster that was on here months back that kept buying and building equipment, yet had not actually finished one knife, despite being advised too, ad nauseum.
 
Something else often overlooked by beginners is that good heat treat is more important than steel choice. I'd always pick 1070 or 1084 with a perfect heat treat over the fanciest super steel with a terrible heat treat. Without the means to handle it properly, a super steel would likely end up performing worse than something simple.

Another thing to consider is the other half of performance, geometry. You may as well figure that out with something cheap, even if you can heat treat anything perfectly
 
There are no beginner steels.

There are steels beginners can heat treat at home and others they need to send out to have done.

There was a time when some makers would have a fit when a new person wanted to use an old file to make a knife, when actually that is a great way to learn and cheap. Many makers started with using files for knives and for a good reason, they can be easily accessed and heat treated well enough for a beginner. That way if they can play with annealing, grinding and heat treating and gain experience to the point a proper steel can be used and they can decide to do their own HT or send it out.
 
I totally agree. That's also why I too used easier vs beginner. 1084 is accessible and forgiving to heat treat. It should have proper respect and i think more often than not simply because it's recommended on a beginner thread it's regarded as a beginner steel.
 
Another steel that is pretty forgiving is 8670. Chuck at AKS sent me a couple pieces to try in the last two orders, and it seems to have a wide HT window of over 100f, maybe 150f to get really good results. The heat it to nonmagnetic plus two shades brighter is about that range, give or take. If the OP's dad wants something more "exotic" than 1084, 8670 may be a good starting point. Even 15n20 isn't that forgiving. Over 1475f and it starts losing performance.
 
Geoff Flato said:
Something else often overlooked by beginners is that good heat treat is more important than steel choice. I'd always pick 1070 or 1084 with a perfect heat treat over the fanciest super steel with a terrible heat treat. Without the means to handle it properly, a super steel would likely end up performing worse than something simple.

Another thing to consider is the other half of performance, geometry. You may as well figure that out with something cheap, even if you can heat treat anything perfectly
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The amount of time I spent dealing my heat treat of W2, 15n20, and now z-wear is much more important than the steel choice itself. The hours I've invested in testing and trial and error are countless. Add the geometry supported at different heat treat protocols with the testing required is something new guys don't figure in. Buying x-steel won't tell you how thin you can go at what hardness, at what point will it chip, or at what point it will fail. I have a customer in Florida who uses a 15n20 chef's knife as a line chef, and he swears by it because it holds its edge well, tolerates abuse (yah! go nickel!) and forms a great patina. Heat treat it right for the application with the right geometry, and you are good to go.

I had a conversation with another maker regarding z-wear yesterday. He had a hard time believing I was using 0.003" before sharpening at Rc63/64. If you asked me last year, I would have said it would be delicate. Testing shows it isn't. I know where my limits are with applications and steel/heat treat. It's very important.
 
Willie71 said:
Another steel that is pretty forgiving is 8670. Chuck at AKS sent me a couple pieces to try in the last two orders, and it seems to have a wide HT window of over 100f, maybe 150f to get really good results. The heat it to nonmagnetic plus two shades brighter is about that range, give or take. If the OP's dad wants something more "exotic" than 1084, 8670 may be a good starting point. Even 15n20 isn't that forgiving. Over 1475f and it starts losing performance.
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I've been testing a kitchen slicer in 8670 and it is very nice. Develops a nice patina too!
 
Willie71 said:
The amount of time I spent dealing my heat treat of W2, 15n20, and now z-wear is much more important than the steel choice itself. The hours I've invested in testing and trial and error are countless. Add the geometry supported at different heat treat protocols with the testing required is something new guys don't figure in. Buying x-steel won't tell you how thin you can go at what hardness, at what point will it chip, or at what point it will fail. I have a customer in Florida who uses a 15n20 chef's knife as a line chef, and he swears by it because it holds its edge well, tolerates abuse (yah! go nickel!) and forms a great patina. Heat treat it right for the application with the right geometry, and you are good to go.

I had a conversation with another maker regarding z-wear yesterday. He had a hard time believing I was using 0.003" before sharpening at Rc63/64. If you asked me last year, I would have said it would be delicate. Testing shows it isn't. I know where my limits are with applications and steel/heat treat. It's very important.
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Very well said. I limit myself to just a few steels for that very reason. It's easy to make a "good" knife. Squeezing every possible bit of performance out is much more difficult.
Gaining the confidence in your steel and HT to really push for a thin blade takes time and testing.
I'll push A2 nearly to the point of straight razor geometry for some knives.
This is just my take from the steels and geometry I've dealt with, but I really prefer a tough steel that can support stupid thin edge geometry, over a super wear resistant steel that needs to be left thicker to avoid chipping. I'd rather have a scalpel that needs sharpening every 8 sheep, than a putty knife that can manage 12
 
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