Increase In Price?

S

SkepJ

Joined
Feb 1, 2005
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Not sure if this is the right sub forum for this, but I tried.

A number of years ago--back in '99 I think--I could have sworn I saw a knife by the Cold Steel company called 13MBXII out of their Tanto Series list for $150, at most, no more than $250. I wanted the knife then, and I want it know, but I recently looked the knife up again and was very shocked to find it lists for $465, as per here: http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-tanto-series.html
I don't doubt it's a very good knife, but good lord, I can buy a handmade knife created by a master blade/blacksmith that is almost the size of a machete for that price!

Is my memory faulty, or has inflation really been enough to double the price of a knife over the last almost eight years? I don't have that kind of money to toss around, anyone know where I might be able to pick one up for cheaper? I suppose it'd have to be a used one in that case though...
 
SkepJ said:
Not sure if this is the right sub forum for this, but I tried.

A number of years ago--back in '99 I think--I could have sworn I saw a knife by the Cold Steel company called 13MBXII out of their Tanto Series list for $150, at most, no more than $250. I wanted the knife then, and I want it know, but I recently looked the knife up again and was very shocked to find it lists for $465, as per here: http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-tanto-series.html
I don't doubt it's a very good knife, but good lord, I can buy a handmade knife created by a master blade/blacksmith that is almost the size of a machete for that price!

Is my memory faulty, or has inflation really been enough to double the price of a knife over the last almost eight years? I don't have that kind of money to toss around, anyone know where I might be able to pick one up for cheaper? I suppose it'd have to be a used one in that case though...
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Cold steel massively overprices all their knives, in the hope that some people will be foolish enough to buy them at those prices. if you go to any normal online retailer the prices are much lower. They also try to trick people into spending more on "San Mai III" as if it was premium steel, but it is merely laminated steel with an AUS-8 stainless core.

I have no love for cold steal, but in the ~$100 or below range there are some very serviceable products, otherwise you are better off looking elsewhere. (unless you enjoy being duped out of your money)
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
Cold steel massively overprices all their knives, in the hope that some people will be foolish enough to buy them at those prices. if you go to any normal online retailer the prices are much lower. They also try to trick people into spending more on "San Mai III" as if it was premium steel, but it is merely laminated steel with an AUS-8 stainless core.

I have no love for cold steal, but in the ~$100 or below range there are some very serviceable products, otherwise you are better off looking elsewhere. (unless you enjoy being duped out of your money)
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Ah. Eight years ago I saw the knife in an outdoor supply catalog, not online, so now it makes sense. I took what you said and looked up the same knife from another retailer and found it for half the price!

Yep, laminated steel is stronger than a solid, homogeneous bar though, isn't it?
 
laminated steel is stronger than a solid, homogeneous bar though, isn't it?
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That would depend on what steels you use for your laminated blade (and of course what kind of homogenous steel bar you're comparing to). Cold Steel's "San Mai" has a core of soft weak steel sandwiched between layers of even softer weaker steel.
 
Cougar Allen said:
That would depend on what steels you use for your laminated blade (and of course what kind of homogenous steel bar you're comparing to). Cold Steel's "San Mai" has a core of soft weak steel sandwiched between layers of even softer weaker steel.
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AUS8 is not weak (for a stainless).

But it IS completly useless to laminate AUS8 core.
And AUS8 isn't premium by any means.


SkepJ - get some Bark River or Fallkniven or Ranger or Tops.
You will be much better off. (if you insist on stainless you can get e.g. Al Mar Sere Operator in S30V for way less than this Coldsteel)
 
Laminated blades are supposed to have a harder, premium inner core- with the softer outer layers allowing the blade to flex instead of break. If the San Mai III had a tool steel or even High end stainless core, that would make sense.

Since CS is not a knife manufacturer, but a marketing firm- I can see how their version of laminated steel came about.

-hide behind hype, charge a high price so people will think the stuff is superior.

-maximize profits. (profit margin would be much lower if they actually used premium materials)

Their marketing strategy is pretty dishonest.(when you consider that the Carbon V blades are superior to, as well as cheaper than, "SanMai III".)
 
I thought laminiated blades should have a softer core and harder outer shell? At least that's the way I interpreted the way samurai swords were layered. Is it not the same?
 
G3 said:
I thought laminiated blades should have a softer core and harder outer shell? At least that's the way I interpreted the way samurai swords were layered. Is it not the same?
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You have it reversed. Hard core, soft sides, absorb shock=minimal likelihood of sword shattering, increased possibility of bending.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Got it. I was trying to figure out where my head messed up and I think I confused the tempering of the edge with assuming the outer shell was hardened as well. Less than the edge would be anyway and with a core that is softer led me to think as if it was reversed.
 
You guys better watch it, if you continue this "bashing", the Cold Steel police will be here any moment to "Put you in your place".
 
Samurai swords of a century ago were made with a softer iron core surrounded by harder steel exterior (read Zen and the Art of the Sword). Current laminated blades by Helle, Cold Steel and others are the opposite: a hard core surrounded by softer/tougher sides. They have different tempering techniques, as well. Different eras, different manufacturing processes.
 
shotgunner11 said:
You guys better watch it, if you continue this "bashing", the Cold Steel police will be here any moment to "Put you in your place".
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maybe dngruss can explain how AUS8 becomes a top shelf steel if you slap some 400 series stainless around it. :D

Nobody has said anything bad about LT so I think we are safe!
 
Alberta Ed said:
Samurai swords of a century ago were made with a softer iron core surrounded by harder steel exterior (read Zen and the Art of the Sword). Current laminated blades by Helle, Cold Steel and others are the opposite: a hard core surrounded by softer/tougher sides. They have different tempering techniques, as well. Different eras, different manufacturing processes.
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So then I'm not insane? I knew it made sense somewhere. Got my centuries confused I guess.
 
Alberta Ed said:
Samurai swords of a century ago were made with a softer iron core surrounded by harder steel exterior (read Zen and the Art of the Sword). Current laminated blades by Helle, Cold Steel and others are the opposite: a hard core surrounded by softer/tougher sides. They have different tempering techniques, as well. Different eras, different manufacturing processes.
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As I understand samurai swords were made out of tamahagane only with many layers of it - premium pieces of steel coocked by Tatar method. It is kind of monosteel, leyered many times. During hammering surface of the steel lose some carbon and so it is kind of layered - highcarbon layers then low carbon layers with different thickness but same steel, and this creates pattern.

I am not sure that Japanese make laminated swords, agricultural instruments, machetes like nata, but I doubt about swords.

San Mai is not right term - should be laminated or waricomi.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Cougar Allen said:
That would depend on what steels you use for your laminated blade (and of course what kind of homogenous steel bar you're comparing to). Cold Steel's "San Mai" has a core of soft weak steel sandwiched between layers of even softer weaker steel.
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Cougar said it all right here. CS's San Mai is absolutely worthless. Their Carbon V is by far the better steel as is their AUS8. Why would anyone Sandwich AUS8 with junk 420J steel, which is what Lynn claims the outer laminates are. What they should have done is used something like BG42 or ATS34 and sandwitched it with 440A or B or AUS8, so you get the ductility and toughness of the softer steel coupled with the hardness for edge holding of the higher carbon steel.
 
nozh2002 said:
I am not sure that Japanese make laminated swords, agricultural instruments, machetes like nata, but I doubt about swords.

San Mai is not right term - should be laminated or waricomi.

Thanks, Vassili.
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You are correct Vassili. The ancient Japanese did not layer steels. They performed a differential heat treat. They would coat the spine of the sword in clay to reduce the heat exposure during heat treat. It may also be that the exposed edge picked up more carbon during the heat treat. That produced a sword with a somewhat softer, tougher spine and a very hard edge.

Very impressive swords, but not layered steels.
 
Some CS knives are very nice, the problem is CS is just a front company for knives made by other companies in dirt cheap coutries. I suspect a lot of us wouldn't mind buying these designs, these knives, if they used even slightly higher quality materials and dropped the hype. If you want to translate that into LT is a moron, be my guest. I love their videos personally, great entertainment value, but nothing else.
 
If 420j is more stain resistant and ductile than AUS8, then there presumably is an advantage to CS's layered steel over plain AUS8. I suppose the point people are making is that AUS8 doesn't have much of a rust or ductility problem on its own, and the differences would only be evident under rare and extreme circumstances.
 
huugh said:
AUS8 is not weak (for a stainless).

But it IS completly useless to laminate AUS8 core.
And AUS8 isn't premium by any means.


SkepJ - get some Bark River or Fallkniven or Ranger or Tops.
You will be much better off. (if you insist on stainless you can get e.g. Al Mar Sere Operator in S30V for way less than this Coldsteel)
Click to expand...

This is the closest thing I've found to that other knife by those manufactureres so far: http://www.fallkniven.com/a1f1/mc1.html
I must say I like it, but I'm not highly knowledgeable about knives, good one?
 
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