Incredible bear attack story

This was a small 400 lb bear, not one of those 1500 lb ones you see pictures of with paws the size of cinderblocks. Any handgun that could stop a human likely would have stopped this bear. Hell, a solid right hand to its nose may have made it think twice about what it was doing and run away.

uhmm 400 Lbs - Rich that was 400 Lbs of pissed off bear. You give my 100 lbs german shepard a punch in the mouth and she will kick your ass - even if you outweight her by 2. I'm pretty sure you would draw back a stump after sucker punching the bear...
 
I know its alot of good to talk about they should have had a gun, but as places are becoming very liberal latly, its hard to be able to. I haven't carried a gun in the woods out of hunting, and If you are, you'd better have a good reason for it (most of the time bear defense doesnt work) The government doesnt want people walking around the woods with guns, to be honest in a day lik this neither would I, but the best we can do is carry bear spray, bells, what ever you want, just use something.
This type of thing worries me in the north of Canada, I personally dont want to carry around a gun, I never liked to out of season, so Im going to carry some spray. Another thing that helps is if your with a group, or couple talk with each other alot, let the animals know your there.
 
My 02.$,

It seems that a good PSK would have been a good Idea, things like whistles, signal mirrors, emergency blankets etc, would have come in handy after the attack. I dont know that any kind of regular FAK would have helped much, but if the attack had been less severe it might have

The fact that only one of them had bear spray, it wasn't attached to a belt or such, and that the girl haddnt really been trained to use it seem like points that need to be considered.

The article mentions that they were intentionaly being noisy, I wonder if they diddn't have bells.

I dont know if a gun would have stopped the bears initial charge but it sure would have been handy if one or both had one especially when it was attacking.
 
uhmm 400 Lbs - Rich that was 400 Lbs of pissed off bear. You give my 100 lbs german shepard a punch in the mouth and she will kick your ass - even if you outweight her by 2. I'm pretty sure you would draw back a stump after sucker punching the bear...

Except that people have survived bear, cougar, and even shark attacks by fighting back when they probably would have been dinner if they didn't fight back.

A 110 lb woman isn't going to be able to kick a 250 lb man's ass, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't fight back when he's trying to rape and kill her. She may be able to cause enough pain and nuisance to convince him to find another target.
 
This was a GRIZZLY not a BLACK bear! Grizzlies you play DEAD, they think the threat is no longer viable and leave! BLACKIES on the other hand want to kill AND eat you, so you FIGHT them to the death! Punching a griz on the nose will only antagonize him...Learn your bears! ;)
 
This was a GRIZZLY not a BLACK bear! Grizzlies you play DEAD, they think the threat is no longer viable and leave! BLACKIES on the other hand want to kill AND eat you, so you FIGHT them to the death! Punching a griz on the nose will only antagonize him...Learn your bears! ;)

That's just a general rule. Once something bites down on you and starts trying to pull out a chunk, assume it's trying to eat you and fight back.
 
This was a GRIZZLY not a BLACK bear! Grizzlies you play DEAD, they think the threat is no longer viable and leave! BLACKIES on the other hand want to kill AND eat you, so you FIGHT them to the death! Punching a griz on the nose will only antagonize him...Learn your bears! ;)

Im sorry man, but Im more scared of a Griz than any black bear, I've scared alot of black bears away with a shout, I''ve had them in my drive way befor and just scared them away. A grizzly on the other hand I have never come in contact with and sure as hell dont want to.
 
This event and this thread reminded me how people tend to look at bear spray as some kind of magic totem, while accusing those that would cary a handgun of doing the same. Simply carrying either, without training and practice in effectively operating them while under pressure will likely do very little good.

I'll concede the point that the bear spray deploys a wide fog that requires much less precision that with a handgun. Additionally, one can LEGALLY carry bear spray into places where carring a handgun is prohibited, or at least hidden and harder to access! You can probably walk any trail in the US or Canada with a can of bear spray IN YOUR HAND without provoking too much unwanted attention. Offsetting these advantages are bear spray's ineffectiveness firing into the wind or at any part of the bear other than it's eyes, nose, and mouth.

Whether you are carrying bear spray or a handgun, you still need to safely and swiftly:
1. Determine that the bear is a potentially deadly threat.
2. Decide to draw your weapon.
3. Draw said weapon without hanging up on clothing or gear.
4. Manipulate whatever safety might be engaged.
5. Aim the weapon at the bear.
6. Decide to shoot.
7. Shoot
8. Rinse, lather, repeat.

The fact remains that it is every bit as complicated to properly draw and fire the bear spray as it is a handgun. On top of that, I know that I train a LOT more with a handgun than I do with an aresol can!

Just food for thought.

-- FLIX
 
I guess that until humans learn to speak "bear", we will really never know what the exact motives of any bear (or other wild animal) really are.

As I currently understand, I think Plainsman speaks the generally accepted truth regarding dealing with different kinds of bears. Sure it's a generalization, but try to understand the situation too....if you have time. (ie garbage bear in the back yard or bluff charging momma Griz)

Momma Grizz and some cubs ---- probably means she is going to charge you to see if you are a threat. If you run, well, you must be guilty and she is going to whup your ass to make sure you are not a continued threat. Once the threat is neutralized (ie you're playing dead) she will leave. If you don't run, she might just bluff charge to within feet of you and not make contact. She'll probably be barking and vigourously chomping her jaws together. She might be making tight pacing circles, she's saying, I'm a mean mother-f....and don't mess with me.
Stand your ground and slowly back away with each repeat charge. If she makes contact, she's serious and you better pray and play dead.

Black bear and cubs ---- perhaps the same response, with the exception that I am unaware of bluff charges as a typical black bear response.

Single Grizz that you surprised, probably defending against what it deems to be a threat (or protecting a kill) - the best defense is a strong offense, right?...so he/she is going to whup your ass if you run. If you stand and are calm, you might make it out without contact.

Black bear out of no where fast, probably hungry because they seldom bluff charge and try to scare away threats. They run instead....not always, but generally.

Any bear at night - fight for your life.

Of course there are exceptions - no all mightly governing rule for the wild animals we encounter, humans included.

I think that people forget that if a larger grizzly really wanted to kill you, you would be dead. With a black bear, you might stand a chance of fighting back if you are lucky. Again, size matters. 200lb bear vs 500lb bear.

Am I an "expert"? No. But I have been present when a black bear scratched a friend at night (scary, very scary 18 stitches in the forehead and a nearly removed eye) and I have chased wounded black bears in the bush. One little 28" high, 135lb black bear took two .306 rounds and two 12 ga. slugs at a distance less than 20 feet before turning and running away 50 yards into the bush. First round broke the shoulder, second round was a gut shot (scoped rifle in tight bush), first slug hit middle dead center, second slug hit high on body cavity and thru lungs. (all while the bear when absolutely ape sh_t, rolling, tearing trees, screaming)....now, you tell me how your little backpacker pistol is going to stop a 400lb pissed off grizzly?

This turned into a rant, sorry. I just think people over-estimate their marksmanship under stress, it always come up on these forums that carrying the gun is the answer, but seldom do people really see that situational awareness is more important. Know your bears, and understand what "typically" makes them do what they do....I think that information is better than any .44

10 cents worth.
D
 
By the way, it's the UNESCO Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park, not Glacier National Park. (Pardon me while I puke...) :barf: At any rate, here are the bear safety recommendations for visitors, as provided by our National Park Service:

1. Don’t Surprise Bears!
Bears will usually move out of the way if they hear people approaching, so make noise. Most bells are not loud enough. Calling out or clapping hands loudly at regular intervals are better ways to make your presence known. Hiking quietly endangers you, the bear, and other hikers.

When bears charge hikers, the trail may be temporarily closed for public safety. While the trail remains closed, other visitors miss the opportunity to enjoy it. A bear constantly surprised by people may become habituated to close human contact and less likely to avoid people. This sets up a dangerous situation for both visitors and bears.

2. Don’t Make Assumptions!
You can’t predict when and where bears might be encountered along a trail. People often assume they don’t have to make noise while hiking on a well-used trail. Some of the most frequently used trails in the park are surrounded by excellent bear habitat. People have been charged and injured by bears fleeing from silent hikers who unwittingly surprised bears along the trail. Even if other hikers haven't recently seen bears along a trail section recently, don’t assume there are no bears present.

Don’t assume a bear’s hearing is any better than your own. Some trail conditions make it hard for bears to see, hear, or smell approaching hikers. Be particularly careful by streams, against the wind, or in dense vegetation. A blind corner or a rise in the trail also requires special attention.

Keep children close by. If possible, hike in groups and avoid hiking early in the morning, late in the day, or after dark. Do not hike alone.

3. Inform Yourself About Bears
Park staff can help you identify signs of bear activity such as tracks, torn-up logs, diggings, trampled vegetation, droppings, and overturned rocks. Bears spend a lot of time eating, so avoid hiking in obvious feeding areas like berry patches, cow parsnip thickets, or fields of glacier lilies.

4. Don't Approach Bears!
Never intentionally get close to a bear! Individual bears have their own personal space requirements which vary depending on their mood. Each will react differently and their behavior can’t be predicted. All bears are dangerous and should be respected equally.​

I call your attention then to the stark contrast found in the guidelines provided to employees of the Forest Service in the FSH 6709.11- HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE HANDBOOK:

...at work areas where bear and/or other aggressive animal populations warrant, at least one person in every work crew shall be assigned a firearm provided by the Forest Service for protection. Working in pairs or in groups is the preferred work method. Personnel who choose to work alone in bear country need appropriate line/staff officer approval. Appropriate line/staff officer may assign personnel to work alone in areas identified as low risk.

Each Forest/Area will be responsible for determining risk and developing guidelines for protection in particular geographical areas within the Forest or Area. Considerations to be used in determining risk can include: species of bear, bears habituated to human presence, number of sightings in general area, food supply/attractants, time of year, animal densities, areas of public concentration, and number and dispersal of party. In areas determined to be high risk, a firearm is the required means of protection.

Should a Job-Hazard-Analysis or risk assessment indicate a firearm is not necessary for protection, Capsicum Pepper Spray (Counter Assault) may be carried to address concern of contact with aggressive animals.

A. Use.

1. Authorized Firearms/Ammunition.

a. The .375 H&H Magnum rifle loaded with cartridges containing a minimum of 270 grain expanding bullets, is considered the most effective weapon authorized by the Forest Service for bear protection.

Other rifle and ammunition combinations may be used in cases where personnel do not feel competent to handle the recoil of the .375 H&H Magnum, or prefer to use an approved personal rifle of some other caliber. However, the 30/06 with 220 grain bullets shall be the minimum acceptable combination.

b. The 12-gauge pump shotgun, with minimum 18" barrel and 3" chamber, may be used as an option in lieu of rifles with an authorization from the Forest Supervisor. At a minimum, shotguns must be loaded with 2-3/4" magnum, 1-1/4 ounce slug.

c. Cartridges shall be "like-new" factory loaded ammunition.

d. Handguns (excluding LE&I) are not permitted on Forest Service work projects or in Forest Service crew quarters, camps, or vehicles.

e. Personal firearms must meet these minimum standards.

f. All Forest Service firearms shall be inspected at the end of each field season by an inspector designated by a line officer. Results of these inspections shall be included in the annual report. Except for minor maintenance, all repair work shall be accomplished by a qualified gunsmith.​

So we get to "clap our hands" and "inform ourselves about bears". They, on the other hand, rely on the .375 Holland & Holland and rapid fire proficiency training! (Outlined later in the handbook.) Note that no handgun even makes the minimum grade.

Interesting. :confused: What's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander!

I believe we should ALL rely on the words of the late COL Jeff Cooper:

Remember the Gunsite Bear Rules:
  1. Be alert.
  2. Remember that bears are not cuddly.
  3. Never enter bear country without a powerful firearm and the skill to use it well.
  4. Never camp on a bear thoroughfare.
  5. Be alert.
 
This was a GRIZZLY not a BLACK bear! Grizzlies you play DEAD, they think the threat is no longer viable and leave! BLACKIES on the other hand want to kill AND eat you, so you FIGHT them to the death! Punching a griz on the nose will only antagonize him...Learn your bears! ;)






I know what you are saying, the studies show that a Grizzly is more likely to attack you, but a black bear is more likely to stay with the attack and kill you, if it engages you.
 
Bear spray might be a worthwhile option to have available, but for me if I'm somewhere where I'm not at the top of the food chain I intend to be armed. Period. End of discussion.

There are the laws of man, and then there are the laws of survival. If they don't mesh, well, ... TOUGH! :mad:
 
The handy Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 loaded with Garrett 540 grain Hammerhead cartridges is an awesome combination for dangerous game. Not mentioned by the park service above, but has a strong following of admirers. Here are some interesting testimonials:

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews2.asp

This gun / cartridge pair has built a reputation for slam dunking rhinos, cape buffalo, African elephant, and BIG grizzlies. Maybe the best insurance policy you are going to find for venturing into bear territory.

But don't try carrying one at the UNESCO Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park. :barf:
 
I lived in bear territory up in northern Jersey for about 9 years. I've had several encounters, none of which were violent. But just because none of THOSE were, I treated every one as if it could have been, and I am always very cautious outdoors. I believe bear spray is a very, very good thing to carry, if you know how to use it. I've seen it turn away bears a number of times. However, I know someone, somewhere, is just going to spray a can around their campsite and figure it'll keep them out of the area. I sincerely hope that that person reads this post. Spraying bear spray around your camp site will, in fact, attract bears to the new, interesting smell. I've seen bears roll in patches of it.

The best thing you can do is make lots of noise, remain aware, and hope that there aint any cubs about.
 
That is the most awesome read I've clicked on a forum in months. I cannot imagine having a bear after me and my kid. What a nightmare that man lived thorough.
 
Truly a bad attack, a Bear attack is not something you want to experience if you ask me.
 
Carrying a rifle and handgun in bear country is a good thing. Having a few friends similarly armed is alot better. Mac
 
Note:

d. Handguns (excluding LE&I) are not permitted on Forest Service work projects or in Forest Service crew quarters, camps, or vehicles.

It's not that they didn't make the grade, it is they are not allowed (only law enforcement and investigation).

--Carl
 
Note:



It's not that they didn't make the grade, it is they are not allowed (only law enforcement and investigation).

--Carl

True, but also note:

"However, the 30/06 with 220 grain bullets shall be the minimum acceptable combination."

and

"At a minimum, shotguns must be loaded with 2-3/4" magnum, 1-1/4 ounce slug."

Not too many handguns that exceed those limits! If there were, I wouldn't enjoy shooting them much...:D
 
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