Inexpensive, quality traditional slipjoints

rmfnla makes my point precisely. There are a type of knife nut that loves knowing story behind their knives, the "soul" if you will. They're willing to pay a premium for the privilege of sending back a brand new knife to the factory to be made right. However, this practice usually does not usually produce fans, but detractors. There's good reason you never hear about anyone getting a chance to speak with the owner of Victorinox or Wenger. Their products are usually made to avoid that confrontation.
 
Another factor to remember as we revere the Swiss is demand. Let's face it, they are able to invest more money into their production technology in part because they sell so many knives. Like it or not, the average knife consumer has spoken and those of us who prefer to carry traditional slipjoint knives that don't have the added benefit of a screwdriver or two, bottle opener, scissors, etc. etc., are very much in the minority.

Don't get me wrong, I love traditional, blade-only slipjoints -- but on a worldwide scale I'm part of a pretty tiny group of potential customers. Consider this, for example: In how many countries does Case have significant sales of their slipjoint knives? Now ask the same question of Victorinox. It's not even close.

And before someone chimes in that Boker, a German company, sells slipjoints too, I would make a pretty confident guess that most of their slipjoints are exported to the U.S. market. Put it this way, I've lived in Europe off and on since 1993, and have done my share of traveling. I've never ever seen anyone else carrying/using a traditional style slipjoint folder over here, but I've seen countless people carrying Victorinox knives.
 
shecky said:
rmfnla makes my point precisely. There are a type of knife nut that loves knowing story behind their knives, the "soul" if you will. They're willing to pay a premium for the privilege of sending back a brand new knife to the factory to be made right. However, this practice usually does not usually produce fans, but detractors. There's good reason you never hear about anyone getting a chance to speak with the owner of Victorinox or Wenger. Their products are usually made to avoid that confrontation.
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Funny, I thought I was paying for the privledge of having a hand-finished knife that is not identical to a bazillion others throughout the world.

If all I wanted is a well-made tool I would probably buy a Leatherman. However, I like warm materials and smooth finishing so I prefer nice pocketknives.

And, let's be fair; Canal Street is widely known for quality work; examples with blade wobble are far from common and the knife is nice enough to be worth a bit of extra trouble, at least IMHO.

Neat trick of making your previous post into a link, BTW!
 
I've always shied away from SAK because I never handled a "real" SAK just knockoffs and wasn't impressed. Now after my purchase of the Cadet it makes me want to purchase a farmer and possibly a OH trekker or sentinel.

I'm impressed with them as well as my Case stockman. Stockman has some issues but if I would have cleaned the polishing compound out ... I didn't understand. They'll make it right.
 
Not really a slip joint but Opinel has been making knives for a very long time with amazing consistency for less than $10. Does that count?;)

Frank
 
rmfnla said:
Funny, I thought I was paying for the privledge of having a hand-finished knife that is not identical to a bazillion others throughout the world.

If all I wanted is a well-made tool I would probably buy a Leatherman. However, I like warm materials and smooth finishing so I prefer nice pocketknives.

And, let's be fair; Canal Street is widely known for quality work; examples with blade wobble are far from common and the knife is nice enough to be worth a bit of extra trouble, at least IMHO.
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Well, you certainly got a hand-finished knife that is not identical to a bazillion others throughout the world. But surely, you could understand that it might not make a good impression to someone who decided to splurge on something "nice", figuring that you get what you pay for, to find that the old SAK may be a better crafted knife.

It's a bit like this: Nobody ever bought a Jaguar or Harley Davidson because they wanted a trouble free, reliable means of transportation. If they did, they might have been quite disappointed when compared to the plain old Honda. Just as there's still a market for Jags and Harleys, there is still a market for Canal Streets, Queens, Cases, etc.
 
6speed said:
I've always shied away from SAK because I never handled a "real" SAK just knockoffs and wasn't impressed. Now after my purchase of the Cadet it makes me want to purchase a farmer and possibly a OH trekker or sentinel.
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It seems odd to me that you shied away from the real thing for so long based on your experience with POS knockoffs. I'd wager you're not the first person to ever react that way, though. And I think that reaction is one of the things that make knockoffs such a problem for the industry.

At any rate, welcome to SAK fandom! :)
 
I think that Schrade came pretty close to the idea of a precision made traditional slipjopint made with "mass production" methods - their knives used the "Swinden rivet" construction with molded hollow bolsters and molded handles eliminating the need for hafting.

Imperial knife company also did this with their "shell handle" construction on inexpensive slipjoints, though these were not as durable.

Currently Buck has used innovative methods on their USA made slipjoints - one-piece bolster/liner construction with bolsters molded to shape, snap-on delrin handles, so again hafting is eliminated. And the use of one indiviudal backspring per blade to eliminate the crinking and fitting of blades for proper blade fall. For an inexpensive quality working tool, the USA Bucks along with Victorinox are hard to beat.
 
This may not be popular but I have purchased well over 100 rough rider and Chinese made Marbles slip joints over the past year and NOT ONE has had any blade wobble. 1 or 2 have had slow snap and one came with a cracked horn handle that I think happened during shipping. I also have a few Case knives that are less than finely finished. One Case peanut has an unbelievable twist in the back springs and the scales are totally different thickness from side to side. To be honest I have restricted my American knife buying to old slip joints which I have found to be wonderful knives for the most part. I have sold about 90 RR knives and have had great feedback from their new owners. I had hoped to build a market for knives made in the USA by introducing people to traditional slip joints but quite frankly most buyers have come back for more RR knives and Marbles knives and passed on the Case knives. Sad but true.

Regards

Robin
 
I have had experience with only 2 Rough Rider slipjoints, one a hawkbill pruner and one a scout knife. Out of the box they were very impressive, in use not so much. The pruner developed bad blade wobble under medium hard use in my garden which I fixed by a few whacks of a rubber mallet. But now it is only used for lighter duty tasks. The tip on the punch on the scout knife rolled the first time I used it, I re-profiled it and it isn't as sharp but it works better. The fit and finish on my Case knives, in some ways, was worse than the RRs but they hold up to real work better IMO.
 
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I'm not knocking Swiss Army knives, as I have several and they are handy, but my most used and that only being on fishing trips, has a bent small pen blade, cracked plastic handles( I've never dropped it, it must have taken a light lick in the tackle box it rides in and simply broke) and the scissor spring is broken. It has 3 pretty bad things wrong with it, and has never been dropped or used very hard. I don't know how the blade bent, but it has a slight L shape to it. I would never use it as a screwdriver, as the knife already has one. The Super Tinker in my pocket would be considered to have blade play on the main blade, by many here. Doesn't bother me though.

All of this said, I know I can pack it up and send it back and get all 3 defects taken care of. They are good, but they ain't perfect.

Jackknife, I didn't know the American Knife CEO's got million dollar bonuses in addition to their salaries. Where did you get this information?
 
Silverdagger pick out an alox model and give it a try; I think you may change your mind at least some anyhow. I'm crazy about my Cadet II, and now I want to try a Soldier or Farmer in blue or red.
 
shecky said:
Well, you certainly got a hand-finished knife that is not identical to a bazillion others throughout the world. But surely, you could understand that it might not make a good impression to someone who decided to splurge on something "nice", figuring that you get what you pay for, to find that the old SAK may be a better crafted knife.

It's a bit like this: Nobody ever bought a Jaguar or Harley Davidson because they wanted a trouble free, reliable means of transportation. If they did, they might have been quite disappointed when compared to the plain old Honda. Just as there's still a market for Jags and Harleys, there is still a market for Canal Streets, Queens, Cases, etc.
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I do understand (and agree) and you make several excellent points.

I keep thinking about my call to Canal Street; Wally is the owner and he answered the phone. I envision a small shop with a few dedicated craftsmen striving to compete with pennies-per-hour overseas labor. It must be tough.

I also realize, and your first post touches on this, that traditional knife-making techniques are really outdated in terms of efficiency and consistant output. Like Harleys and Jags, these knives appeal to a specific segment of the market that is willing to overlook less than perfect products for whatever esoteric aspect appeals to them.

Can't fault Hondas and SAKs (or, truth be told, Rough Rider knives); the real question is what the buyer wants in that specific purchase.
 
Pipeman said:
This may not be popular but I have purchased well over 100 rough rider and Chinese made Marbles slip joints over the past year and NOT ONE has had any blade wobble. 1 or 2 have had slow snap and one came with a cracked horn handle that I think happened during shipping. I also have a few Case knives that are less than finely finished. One Case peanut has an unbelievable twist in the back springs and the scales are totally different thickness from side to side. To be honest I have restricted my American knife buying to old slip joints which I have found to be wonderful knives for the most part. I have sold about 90 RR knives and have had great feedback from their new owners. I had hoped to build a market for knives made in the USA by introducing people to traditional slip joints but quite frankly most buyers have come back for more RR knives and Marbles knives and passed on the Case knives. Sad but true.

Regards

Robin
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My biggest complaint about Chinese knives is the poor quality of materials, especially blades.

FWIW, I just picked up a new Case Trapperlock (red bone) and it is as nicely finished as anything from GEC (or Queen or Northwoods, etc.). I wouldn't mind CV instead of the SS blade, but that's another matter.
 
Re materials used in RR knives.
I have tried to purchased most if not all of the different RR knives to test them at first and then when happy to sell them. A pearl handled knife is pretty close to the same price as a celluloid handle. They all have brass liners (same as case) nickle silver bolsters and pins, jigged cow bone etc, all the same price. The blades are 440a and I have had no problem with them. I am mainly a leather smith and cut 8oz veg tan all day long with a micarta handled stockman and usually strop it a couple of times a day to keep it sharp enough to cut in one run. Quite honestly I would have never purchased one if I hadn't read a piece in Knives illustrated (Feb 2007) that was very favourable. I also purchased one of the "Loveless" style hunters last year and loaned it to a friend who hunts on my land. He dressed three deer with the knife without even stropping and then came back and bought it. I haven't found many problems with the knives at all. The stockman has a wharncliff blade that is crinked a bit much so it is the one I kept (and re crinked to slightly straighter. As for the pruner, I have sold a couple to orchard owners up here and have heard nothing but good comments about them,, no wobble. I think like any company there will be the odd knife that is somehow defective but at 10 bucks or less you don't have too much to lose.

Regards

Robin
 
mnblade said:
It seems odd to me that you shied away from the real thing for so long based on your experience with POS knockoffs. I'd wager you're not the first person to ever react that way, though. And I think that reaction is one of the things that make knockoffs such a problem for the industry.

At any rate, welcome to SAK fandom! :)
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Thank-you for the welcome. I didn't realize that they were knockoffs! Quite a few were promotional items that I transfered quickly to someone else. I fully agree on the problem with patent rights.
 
the case yello jacket knives offer a very good level of quality as well as low cost. Out of the brands of traditional folders i've owned, the best have been the case knives, and i'm afraid to say, the mass produced chinese marbles knives
 
rmflna

You mentioned the CASE Trapperlock in Red bone, I believe this DOES come in cv too but probably only in Yellow handle. I hear good things about its quality though.
 
4Mica said:
The discussion in the blade play/wobble thread has me thinking, can a manufacture make a traditional American style slipjoint as well as Victorinox makes SAKs without it being cost prohibitive. What are your thoughts?
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Well, I just bought a USA-made Schrade 80T, unused in the original box. It is as well made as any SAK I've had. All blades are sharp, no wobbles, no gaps. So, whether or not it is possible today, it was possible for Schrade. Almost hate to carry it, but I bought it to use.
 
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