INFI and/or SR-101 vs 3v thoughts?

Which also translates into why something would take longer to strop
 
I would love to see some 52100 with Guy's geometry on it. We'd have a whole lot better comparison then, and we need to be talking apples to apples which we are not doing comparing Guy's grind with Swamprat's grind.
 
You can't do any better than Survive and Busse. I love both companies and their steel offerings. I think the only other knife companies I frequent for fixed blades are Lt Wright and Becker.
 
Lately, people have been heat treating 52100 by austenizing it at 1475F instead of the 1525-1550F that is the typical "industry standard" for bearings. Apparently what you end up with is increased toughness and really great fine edge stability because you are below the saturation level and have very fine grain structure. This is done at the "expense" of some absolute abrasion resistance because you don't have all of those bigger chromium carbides. The kitchen knife guys love 52100 treated that way and I have a sneaking suspicion that Busse is not dong anything radically different than what guys like Bob Kramer have been doing with 52100 for a while. With that said I doubt that 52100 is going to be quite as tough as 3V. Probably more like A2, but with the ability to take a finer edge.
 
Just my experience, but I have found the 52100 that I've used (Swamprat SR-101) tougher than the A2 that I've used (BRKT). In all fairness, I do not have as much experience with A2, and am not sure that all A2 is created equally as I have heard a lot of praise for it.

I will say this: If I had the choice of 52100 vs 3V in the same model blade at the same price point, I will pick 3V every time. That's about as high a compliment as I know how to give it.
 
jdm61 said:
Lately, people have been heat treating 52100 by austenizing it at 1475F instead of the 1525-1550F that is the typical "industry standard" for bearings. Apparently what you end up with is increased toughness and really great fine edge stability because you are below the saturation level and have very fine grain structure. This is done at the "expense" of some absolute abrasion resistance because you don't have all of those bigger chromium carbides. The kitchen knife guys love 52100 treated that way and I have a sneaking suspicion that Busse is not dong anything radically different than what guys like Bob Kramer have been doing with 52100 for a while. With that said I doubt that 52100 is going to be quite as tough as 3V. Probably more like A2, but with the ability to take a finer edge.
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Thanks for this info!! Pretty interesting last point, because of all of my knives I've found that I can make my RMD SR-101 and 01 knives the sharpest.

Do you think the cryogenic process makes a difference in SR-101? Firearms manufactures make claims about how it strengthens the steel and I wonder how that translates to a knife.
 
I don't have 3V (yet) or INFI (yet), although I have both on order (S!K 4.1 and TGM, respectively). But I can say that SR-101 ranks up there with ELMAX and M390 for edge holding, in my uses. I have been somewhat shocked at how well it holds its edge. I'm hoping the 3V and 20CV that I have on order from Survive hold that well. If they do, I'll be quite happy.
 
I have to say that in my woods use: mostly batoning, chopping, feather sticks, food prep some notching I have a difficulty differentiating edge holding differences between INFI, 3V, SR101 or even 01 or 5160 for that matter.
To me these differences are too small to really matter.
I love 3V though.

A lot of people do cardboard tests. I never had to cut cardboard in the woods.
 
I've got a bunch of Busses and used to have more and never used them. I have more (older model) Swamprats and Scrapyards, mostly in SR101. I have several 3V blades from various makers, mostly Bark River, but also a Survive 5.1 and a couple from Nathan the machinist (somewhat higher RC).
The biggest issue with the Bussekin is edge geometry. They are very well-made and tough knives, but not great cutters without reworking the edges. Having said that, my favorites among them are the Res-C handled knives because I like Res-C enclosed handles! In winter especially (no exposed metal tang on the handle). I like the SR101 for its edge retention compared to INFI. Both seem plenty tough. Edge geometry and blade design would be the deciding factor.
If I had to choose one of these 3 steels, it would definitely be 3V on the higher hardness HT, for combination of abrasion resistance/edge retention and toughness.
If I had to choose one of these knives, the blade shape and geometry would be the overriding factor, not the steel (from these 3 choices), although I would look at 3V first for the above reason.
 
All I can say is Infi and SR101 has enough of what I am looking for in a knife (toughness, edge holding, ect.) that I do not need to move on to a different steel. If I had to ever pick up 3v it would not be Survive as all thier offerings to date are just Plain Jane in my eyes so I would go Bark River as they are visually more appealing and have infinitely more options.


Got to also consider the Busse/Kin warranty that to date not one has been refused to be warranted no matter how grossly abused, this has encouraged extreme abuse that is well documented and no other company has been able to match that track record.

In conclusion I think 3v needs to be around a bit longer in abusive hands to prove itself to hardcore users, and be much more documented than what I have seen to date.

When looking up abused knives Busse is king of the ring.
 
I've been a Busse fan for a long time and have put Infi to some hard work. BUT 3V is a well-established extremely tough steel. There is just no doubt about it and plenty of evidence. So no basis to assert it is not proven.
I also have a bunch of Bark Rivers, mostly in 3V (and MS was a late comer to 3V) and I like them, but they have some of the slipperiest handles I have used. They need grip tape!
Guy's designs may be "plain" but who cares? OK a lot of people might and a lot of collectors like fancy handles. But one of the appeals to me of Survive knives is they work. Function rules!
One thing neither Busse, Bark River, or Survive has is a good folder in 3V!!! I gave up on a Busse Infi folder a long time ago, and now would prefer one in 3V anyway. Guy can win this race!!
 
dogrunner said:
I've been a Busse fan for a long time and have put Infi to some hard work. BUT 3V is a well-established extremely tough steel. There is just no doubt about it and plenty of evidence. So no basis to assert it is not proven.
I also have a bunch of Bark Rivers, mostly in 3V (and MS was a late comer to 3V) and I like them, but they have some of the slipperiest handles I have used. They need grip tape!
Guy's designs may be "plain" but who cares? OK a lot of people might and a lot of collectors like fancy handles. But one of the appeals to me of Survive knives is they work. Function rules!
One thing neither Busse, Bark River, or Survive has is a good folder in 3V!!! I gave up on a Busse Infi folder a long time ago, and now would prefer one in 3V anyway. Guy can win this race!!
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I like both Busse/Survive also. I think decorative is great - but I want to know I can rely on my knife if/when needed - and here's to a Survive! folder!
 
Personally I really like the look of GSO's over polished Wooden handles and mosaic pins. Some knives certainly are art, but Guy's designs look amazing to me, but not too fancy that I feel bad getting them dirty. The new aesthetics are really doing it for me! And yes, the function is always foremost in SURVIVE! designs :thumbup:
 
Silver Needle said:
Personally I really like the look of GSO's over polished Wooden handles and mosaic pins. Some knives certainly are art, but Guy's designs look amazing to me, but not too fancy that I feel bad getting them dirty. The new aesthetics are really doing it for me! And yes, the function is always foremost in SURVIVE! designs :thumbup:
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I couldn't agree more. I like a lot of different knife aesthetics for what they are. Some are more "organic" like many Busse knives. Some have a lot of smooth surfaces and pins etc...I would describe Guy's designs as "Audi like" high end, all business. It is an aesthetic that i personally love. The flair comes from the refinement, like a classic black tux. Can't wait to grab my new 5.1 and use it as intended!
 
redwood22 said:
I couldn't agree more. I like a lot of different knife aesthetics for what they are. Some are more "organic" like many Busse knives. Some have a lot of smooth surfaces and pins etc...I would describe Guy's designs as "Audi like" high end, all business. It is an aesthetic that i personally love. The flair comes from the refinement, like a classic black tux. Can't wait to grab my new 5.1 and use it as intended!
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Funny you said that. I tend to think it is more "BMW like" for performance.
 
I sold my barkies to buy Survive! They have everythng I want in a knife and nothing I dont. Mike Stewart stated that 3V is THE BEST knife steel there is to date. I was very active in their forum before knife forums went down the toilet. Fehrman's 3V is impressive too. Hossom uses 3V. Dan Keffler uses 3V. Guy uses it. They all use 3V because it has probably one of the best balances of the three properties of steel that everyone cares about, toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. It resists the heck out of micro chipping and if it does chip it will be because it hits a rock or other metal and the chip will be relatively small. I have yet to see a 3V knife chipped beyond its edge up into the actual grind. The steel is quite wear resistant. This can make it more resistant to sharpening stones, but I havent ever had an issue sharpening it. It holds an edge so well because of these two factors that Ive only ever needed to strop or have a pass or two on the buffing wheel to retain a shaving edge. Before I found Survive! I was into bushcrafty style knives. At that point the 3V bark river liten bror and Aurora were my favorites (aurora was king). I tried to patina the knife with vinegar, citrus , red meat, tomatoes, fish blood and birchwood casey gun blue! The 3V would not take a patina from any of those things and gun blue wouldnt blue it. It was only after cutting 3 pounds of strawberries into very thin slices did I notice a patina start. The patina was extremely faint and could only be seen in a certain light and a certain angle. It was a purple/blue color. I could never get it to darken. So the corrosion/stain resistance is there too.
 
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I love reading this. Makes me excited about my survive! 5.1 I've ordered.
I know Bradford's Guardian has not been used extensively by many folks here yet. But, his 3V 5.5" and 6.5" are pretty friggin' dope. It just wasn't designed to be quite the chopper the survive's are. We need more people using them to validate them though.

I really want a Survive! 8
 
Something cool about 3V is that its toughness allows you to run thinner stock and still have a durable blade under NORMAL USE, ie actual cutting, whittling, cleaning game and LIGHT batoning. This is why I want the 4.5 to hit the actual production schedule. You could make a thin light neck knife or a thin folder and know that for edc use you will brobaly NEVER have an issue. I would be all over a 3V spyderco mili or PM2...

Hint hint wink wink!


I do not understand the "hard use" phenomenon. Batoning small wood is about abusive as I get. I wouldnt even call it abuse. I guess I get the fact that knowing in an emergency you could do almost anything with your knife is a good thing, but to me a knife is for cutting. There are better tools for chopping, smashing and sawing.
 
Riz2530 said:
Something cool about 3V is that its toughness allows you to run thinner stock and still have a durable blade under NORMAL USE, ie actual cutting, whittling, cleaning game and LIGHT batoning. This is why I want the 4.5 to hit the actual production schedule. You could make a thin light neck knife or a thin folder and know that for edc use you will brobaly NEVER have an issue. I would be all over a 3V spyderco mili or PM2...

Hint hint wink wink!


I do not understand the "hard use" phenomenon. Batoning small wood is about abusive as I get. I wouldnt even call it abuse. I guess I get the fact that knowing in an emergency you could do almost anything with your knife is a good thing, but to me a knife is for cutting. There are better tools for chopping, smashing and sawing.
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when camping, I typically carry a 4-5" blade accompanied with a Silky Big Boy. Nobody should complain that it is too difficult to take something like a saw with you. My total loadout for Spring to Fall has never been over 20 pounds, and is often under 15 lbs.

I EDC a guardian 3.5" in 3V. I dig.
 
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