INFI Katana?

BePrepared

BePrepared

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Aug 26, 2010
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I'm kind of obsessed with Japanese weaponry, so i'm wondering how a real katana made of INFI would stack up against the best modern renditions of Katana in more common steels.

I know we already have the wakis and such, but those are more of a stylized machete type tool than a specialized weapon like a katana...

has anyone else ever given this any thought?
 
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Aside from the fact that it would be insanely expensive, why would you need something as durable as INFI for a katana, which as you said is a specialized weapon? Flesh is certainly a lot softer than wood, so wouldn't you just be better off with something with higher edge retention? If you're just using it for anything other than tameshigiri or in actual swordfights (lulz), you're just sort of abusing a Katana. Wouldn't the Waki or Rucki work for that then?
 
Insanely expensive?

I doubt that. Genuine Japanese Shinken cost between 5 and 10k depending on the master who makes them

I'd expect that you'd be looking at 2-3k for a true katana in INFI, so if the performance is equal to or greater than traditional materials, it could easily become a substitute at a reasonable price
 
CR33 said:
(AK) American Katana anyone?
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While i will admit freely that the AK is the second most impressive tool ever produced by BUSSE (behind the Killa Zilla), it is by no definition a Katana.

it's certainly a sword, but it doesn't have any of the edge geometry of a katana... and edge geometry is what gives a katana its awesome cutting potential
 
I agree completely. an infi katana wouldn't be any more expensive than a good traditional one. Id pick INFI every time. I could really get behind a rapier or cutlass too
 
Ugh, Japaneses sword smithing is about art not performance (regardless of their ability to perform). The reality regarding weapons is that more kitchen knives do most of the killing, "specialized weapons" are for collecting, and showing off.
 
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PEOPLE DO NOT GIVE JERRY ANY MORE IDEAS!

My credit card is already curled in a ball and crying softly to itself since the LBTG got announced, it doesn't need any more trauma!
 
I don't think you COULD make an authentic Japanese katana using INFI.

With a true Japanese katana, it's all about the slow, careful, meticulous method of crafting. And that begins with tamahagane -- iron sands. And not with INFI.

You could lay hands on a Busse AK-47 in INFI -- a katana-like INFI sword. Many enthusiasts seem to enjoy them.:)
 
Allcaps321 said:
Ugh, Japaneses sword smithing is about art not performance (regardless of their ability to perform). The reality regarding weapons is that more kitchen knives do most of the killing, "specialized weapons" are for collecting, and showing off.
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OldPhysics said:
I don't think you COULD make an authentic Japanese katana using INFI.

With a true Japanese katana, it's all about the slow, careful, meticulous method of crafting. And that begins with tamahagane -- iron sands. And not with INFI.

You could lay hands on a Busse AK-47 in INFI -- a katana-like INFI sword. Many enthusiasts seem to enjoy them.:)
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I kind of feel this was only true centuries ago when the swordsmiths had no choice but to smith it slowly, by hand. Whether or not it was an art is subject to your level of respect and awe for the process--regardless, these swords were used to kill, no?

That said, I feel a katana, and most any blade, is defined by its final characteristics, not by its creation process, not even by its use (although intended use, sure). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--I'm grossly generalizing here just for the sake of posting something. That's why I hesitate to answer the OP's question just yet.
 
A Katana was made ... the Dragon Fang ... it has been owned by a few different Hogs ... it is Katana length but lacks a Tsuba and is full tang and not a traditional recessed tang akin to the Japanese Katana ... the balance will be different because of the full tang ... the sword is more of a collectors piece IMO ...
 
i definitely think the Dragon Fang is impressive, but again, it has the edge geometry of an AK rather than that of a katana.

It is katana length, but it's still a chopper more than a slicer

And as to the comments concerning the "art" of swordmaking, i am not stating that that art is obsolete. I am simply saying that seeing a product that provides the form and function of one of the greatest combat weapons ever, but does so in a technologically superior way, would be very interesting

I think it might even be interesting to see a modern combat designed Waki from Busse. Something that would be genuinely usable in CQB combat. If you look around, you'll see that many people are making custom blades for use by SEAL teams or the like... but busse's waki is much more of a machete type tool than a combat weapon.

By the way, gunsmithing used to be pure art, but that doesn't stop me from using my Browning Stainless Stalker to drop a hog at 450 yards...

Get modern... it's the future ;)
 
Can you explain to us what is the edge geometry of a katana? I really don't know.

OTOH, you keep saying that the Bussekin swords are more like machetes. I have to disagree with that characterization. The three that I have owned make for lousy machetes. The Busse swords have a geometry that quickly gets thick behind the edge, a steep primary grind. That is not like a machete. They are good choppers, but poor on snap cuts in light vegetation.

edit to add: Can you point us to any examples of custom CQB weapons made for special teams? Sounds interesting.
 
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resinguy said:
Can you explain to us what is the edge geometry of a katana? I really don't know.

OTOH, you keep saying that the Bussekin swords are more like machetes. I have to disagree with that characterization. The three that I have owned make for lousy machetes. The Busse swords have a geometry that quickly gets thick behind the edge, a steep primary grind. That is not like a machete. They are good choppers, but poor on snap cuts in light vegetation.

edit to add: Can you point us to any examples of custom CQB weapons made for special teams? Sounds interesting.
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I don't know if there's anything special about the edge, but they do have a pretty distinct cross section:
image8A2.JPG


I'm sure these exist in other knives as well, maybe some custom one offs, but I know they are pretty common in katana. Not sure if they're in any other swords.

While I don't agree that Busse and Bussekin swords are more like machetes, I do agree that they're not like swords. They're pretty good at chopping. Swords, by at least one definition, are meant for cutting and thrusting soft targets.
 
I really like my Custom Shop AK, but I don't know much about traditional Katana's and am more about function than form.

2012-01-29000648.jpg
 
(the comments on edge thickness are mostly conjecture since I don't have a series of katana's to measure the edges on. I'm kind of just guessing based on what I 'felt' with my hands vs. what I'd read on a micrometer)


My concern with making a "traditional" katana is the geometry at the edge. The older katana's I've handled (1600's) were very nearly or a complete true zero edge. Jerry's "zero edge" isn't what I'm talking about, what jerry does is a blended edge. He just rounds off the corners. There is a huge difference between doing a full convex with no drastic changes at the edge (going from 6 degree's to 10 degree's at the edge) and what you'll find on busse knives (say 6 degree's to 24 degree's at the edge with a rounded corner).

INFI isn't meant for thin cross sections, thats one of the main reasons I wouldn't want a puuko style true zero edge on it, or a katana style true zero convex. INFI has great potential for taking shock forces, but only if it has enough metal to support it. Tamahagane is an extremely simple metal similar to 1095 with it's major varying component being it's carbon content. It's brought up to high hardness at the edge/core wich allows it to resist deformation at such a thin cross section. But that makes it relatively fragile in the sense that it will shatter/break if it hits a hard target with substantian force, which is why the steel is sandwiched between softer lower carbon versions of the steel - when the core shatters the outer shell holds it together so you can keep using it even though it's broken. INFI would do something similar but different. The edge would deform upon contact of a hard surface, moreso than with normal busse knives because theres less supporting metal. Where you might get a .5mm roll on a from-the-factory 30 degree angle edge thats .050" thick 1/16" behind the edge, you could end up with a 1.5mm dent on a 15 degree edge thats .020" thick behind the edge. Heavier dents, when subjected to repeat shocks, result in greater amplified deformation/damage.

You could make this less of an issue by beefing up the edge by not having a true zero, but then you get the bulky dull/thick feeling ak47. Or you could beef it up by continuuing a very thick edge into a thick convex, say 30 degrees per side all the way to full thickness, but the resulting blade would be just as thick and dense feeling.
 
I think my satin AK is my very favorite posession. wouldn't change a thing except maybe the handle colors.
 
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