INFI Katana?

My favorite example of a tactical wakizashi

there are dozens of other examples being made by custom makers. One said that he knew at least one of his blades was being used by someone in force recon, but i can't find that article

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BePrepared said:
i definitely think the Dragon Fang is impressive, but again, it has the edge geometry of an AK rather than that of a katana.

It is katana length, but it's still a chopper more than a slicer

And as to the comments concerning the "art" of swordmaking, i am not stating that that art is obsolete. I am simply saying that seeing a product that provides the form and function of one of the greatest combat weapons ever, but does so in a technologically superior way, would be very interesting

I think it might even be interesting to see a modern combat designed Waki from Busse. Something that would be genuinely usable in CQB combat. If you look around, you'll see that many people are making custom blades for use by SEAL teams or the like... but busse's waki is much more of a machete type tool than a combat weapon.

By the way, gunsmithing used to be pure art, but that doesn't stop me from using my Browning Stainless Stalker to drop a hog at 450 yards...

Get modern... it's the future ;)
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IMO comparing the Busse Ruck to a machete is both insulting, in both directions, and completely inaccurate on all levels. BTW, what's the rationale for finding distinction between a combat weapon and a machete. I agree that a machete is not specifically designed for combat purposes, but the reality is that machetes are the most common combat blade on planet earth and that more people have met their fate by a machete than any other blade. The Busse Ruck would be a great weapon...but again, one needs to be very specific as to what they expect out of "weapon". Probably a bit long for modern combat...but just a bit. A little bit shorter handle and blade and BINGO!, IMO. I'm also obsessed with Japanese blades (for the beauty and scary slicing ability)...but in reality...IMO, they would totally suck as a combat by my expectations. Way too fragile! and not able to withstand the elements. Rayskin and silk wrapped over a soft wood sleeve fitted to a tang with two bamboo pegs.....please! Stunningly beautiful and comfortable...but....c'mon. A blade prone to rusting and chipping with no lateral strength...please! Nonetheless the Japanese katanas, wakizashi, and tanto are beautiful works of art with amazing speed, agility and cutting ability...but, should be kept behind glass or at least indoors to play around with rolled mats and such...not the natural elements of rain, ice, rocks, etc...

I do however agree with you that a "traditional japanese inspired" modern waki, or the more contemporarily practical tanto, made by Busse in INFI would be Kick A$$...love the work of Wally Hayes.

My words are only my opinions, which are inevitably flawed and contain levels of ignorance just like all opinions, and are in no way intended to be desrespectful or antagonistic.

RR
 
I have had curious interest in the Busse/Kin sword's since I arrived here however, was not around when most were released. I would like to see some pic's in this thread along with performance/use opinion's as I have read very little about them. I just assumed most people did not use them and were more for collector's to hang on the wall. I did see a video of a SwampRat Waki cutting a tree and thought it was impressive. At that time, there was just so much information I was trying to absorb and my search was limited to skinning knives at the time. It would be great to see some in action!
Edit/ I found the video on You Tube.
 
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The video is a swamp rat waki...
In hindsight I really regret even responding to this threat, as it is unworthy. Referring to a Busse as a machete like tool offends me...nothing against machetes, they are great, I've made a bunch...but it's apples and oranges. I should have resisted the urge.
 
The vid you refer to is of Hindsight (?) chopping down tress with a Swamp Rat Waki. You can probably find it on YouTube. I'll try dig up one of steelnut chopping down a small tree with my Busse Ruck, but the search engine here is crap now, and often can't find old threads.

People absolutely do use them. David Brown has old pics of all sorts of crazy chopping with his AK47.


edit to add: found the old thread with pics of my Ruck in use. There was a vid, but the link is no good. Wish I had saved it. :grumpy:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Boys-Chop-In-and-Hot-Dog-Roast?highlight=boys

another thread, with some pics of tree trimming with a Waki. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-Boys-Tree-and-Pork-chop-Fest!?highlight=boys
 
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Raging Rhino said:
IMO comparing the Busse Ruck to a machete is both insulting, in both directions, and completely inaccurate on all levels. BTW, what's the rationale for finding distinction between a combat weapon and a machete. I agree that a machete is not specifically designed for combat purposes, but the reality is that machetes are the most common combat blade on planet earth and that more people have met their fate by a machete than any other blade. The Busse Ruck would be a great weapon...but again, one needs to be very specific as to what they expect out of "weapon". Probably a bit long for modern combat...but just a bit. A little bit shorter handle and blade and BINGO!, IMO. I'm also obsessed with Japanese blades (for the beauty and scary slicing ability)...but in reality...IMO, they would totally suck as a combat by my expectations. Way too fragile! and not able to withstand the elements. Rayskin and silk wrapped over a soft wood sleeve fitted to a tang with two bamboo pegs.....please! Stunningly beautiful and comfortable...but....c'mon. A blade prone to rusting and chipping with no lateral strength...please! Nonetheless the Japanese katanas, wakizashi, and tanto are beautiful works of art with amazing speed, agility and cutting ability...but, should be kept behind glass or at least indoors to play around with rolled mats and such...not the natural elements of rain, ice, rocks, etc...

I do however agree with you that a "traditional japanese inspired" modern waki, or the more contemporarily practical tanto, made by Busse in INFI would be Kick A$$...love the work of Wally Hayes.

My words are only my opinions, which are inevitably flawed and contain levels of ignorance just like all opinions, and are in no way intended to be desrespectful or antagonistic.

RR
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While that may be true, the Busse Ruck was first created for military use...special order by one or more specialized units is my guess...and then the remaining stock were sold to us as a military overrun. A large knife (sword) like this would have to serve well at more than one role to be considered for carry, and I believe that it does serve well as both a brush (but not jungle) machete and a combat short sword.
IIRC, it was posted here by a member many moons ago that in areas of combat like Afghanistan, the enemy knew the American rules of engagement almost as well as our troops and would show aggression towards a unit on patrol as an unruly but unarmed crowd (or at least a crowd not showing arms), but not enough to be considered a valid thread to be fired upon under the ROE. However, when the soldier(s) would unsheath the Ruck, the enemy would back up not knowing if they were authorized to use these towards "lesser" threats along the scale of defensive action/reaction...or something along these lines. I wish I could find this post, but my search fu is not in gear this early! :)

I have used a Ruck to clear brush, vines, & bramble and it does work fairly well. :thumbup: ...No combat experience with it though. ;)

ETA: Pix...

The_Bramble.jpg


Ruck_CGFBM-2.jpg
 
I have a swamp rat rucki. Fantasic blade. I've done some chopping with it, and in my opponion the blade is too light to serve this purpose well. If the edge were thinned down a bit, it might bite a little deeper.

As far as clearing light brush I suspect it will do well. If the weather here clears up a bit I might give it a workout sometime this weekend.
 
more of a machete type tool than a combat weapon
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As Raging Rhino pointed out, machetes are fearsome weapons.

Further, there have been many swords designed primarily to chop or even crush going back (at least) to the Egyptians, and with many Medieval examples easily found. I have been present at cutting workshops with Japanese blades, where a Busse made an appearance. Handy little blade, but it lacked the length and curve to cut as easily as the more traditionally styled blades there.

It would be great to have a Japanese styled blade, not the hybrid shapes currently available. I'd love a 26" blade and 12" handle with a tsuba, though I'd have a hard time justifying paying more than $2000, even for INFI.

I have been present with ODA and Marine embedded teams, and seen a Marine gunny use a Rambo knife for crowd control. I asked him about it later, and he laughingly said it was a Pakistani POS, but he just held it up, and the crowd would flock away from him. And that's really what happened.

John
 
uyotg said:
I kind of feel this was only true centuries ago when the swordsmiths had no choice but to smith it slowly, by hand. Whether or not it was an art is subject to your level of respect and awe for the process--regardless, these swords were used to kill, no?

That said, I feel a katana, and most any blade, is defined by its final characteristics, not by its creation process, not even by its use (although intended use, sure). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--I'm grossly generalizing here just for the sake of posting something. That's why I hesitate to answer the OP's question just yet.
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Here is a good read I stumbled across while researching swords and martial arts.... The whole thing is great and check out items 35-39 about Japanese swords...

http://www.thearma.org/essays/TopMyths.htm
 
dericdesmond said:
If that offends you then you chose your handle wisely. Get over it with a cold beer, mmmmm, beer :)
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cheers, I'm over it, "offends" was too strong of a word.
My handle was given to me many years ago and just stuck...I've chilled out immensely with age.
 
Jaxx said:
While that may be true, the Busse Ruck was first created for military use...special order by one or more specialized units is my guess...and then the remaining stock were sold to us as a military overrun. A large knife (sword) like this would have to serve well at more than one role to be considered for carry, and I believe that it does serve well as both a brush (but not jungle) machete and a combat short sword.
....
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I couldn't agree more. I have also found that the rucki works well in certain machete roles, like chopping off woody branches, but not grasses and vines where the weight and blade thickness limits its effectiveness. The ruck can be used as a machete and machetes can be used as weapons no doubt. That's the thing about pieces of steel sharpened down to nothing...there's a lot of possibilities from shaving hair to chopping down trees. Kitchen knives aren't designed to be weapons...but I wouldn't mess with a sushi chef while he's working... My statement was relative to the OP pointing out blade geometry as the basis for distinction between weapon and machete tool and referring to the busse ruck as a machete on that rationale. 99% of machetes are literally just 1/8" (or less) thick sheet metal stamped out with a crude edge, i.e., there is no blade profile whatsoever. This is obviously not the case with a busse ruck.

Peace
 
I just saw a show the other night on NGC or Disc or maybe H2 maybe Modern Marvels where a guy made a Katana in a modern shop using the traditional methods. The tempering is one of the key factors to the performance of the Katana. This is where the blade edge gets it's strength and also it's curve. At the same time the spine is softer due to the tempering method which allows the shock to be absorbed. Knowing that, I am curious how a Ruck or AK would handle the Katana style tempering. I've seen another show where they followed a master in Japan and they take a year to learn how to get the coal to just the right shape and size. The modern blade performed just as well as the traditional one, there is just a lot more that goes into the crafting of a traditional Katana. No disrespect, but, they're A LOT more anal about certain things when using the traditional method. BTW gotta get me a Ruck and and AK ;) Matter of fact I will take one of each of the swords :D
 
lots of people seem to have misinterpreted my statement

I never called any of the busse line a "machete" i said the phrase "machete like tool"

the purpose of this was to indicate that, like a machete, their primary purpose is NOT as a weapon, but rather as a multi-purpose outdoors tool.

A katana is a purpose made weapon, and would be relatively poor for any other purpose. It is a thing made to cause damage to the squishy parts of living creatures, and would fail quickly when used to baton a piece of wood, or hack at vines.

So, perhaps we can move past the machete statement, and the various ways it has been misconstrued, to the heart of the matter

INFI KATANA = PURE WIN
 
As Jaxx pointed out above, you may not have been aware of the origin of the Ruck. It was designed for a military team. While we are not privy to the specific design criteria, it would be reasonable to include 'weapon' among those.

wrt to the machete question, some of us who have used Bussekin sword-like objects know that they are inferior to machetes in the tasks that machetes excel in.
 
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