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INFI/M-INFI

Discussion in 'Busse Combat Knives' started by sevenedges, Feb 3, 2000.

  1. sevenedges

    sevenedges Banned BANNED

    992
    Sep 14, 1999
    Is infi steel more resistant to edge deformation than m-infi?....Andy?..... [​IMG]
     
  2. Mike Turber

    Mike Turber

    Oct 2, 1998
    Gonna move this to the new forum.

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  3. sevenedges

    sevenedges Banned BANNED

    992
    Sep 14, 1999
    Good job Mike. I was just wishing I could. [​IMG]
     
  4. Mike Turber

    Mike Turber

    Oct 2, 1998
    The M/INFI is only on the Basic line and the regular INFI is on the custom line. I have yet to test them side by side but I doubt there is much difference based on what I know from both steels.

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  5. Cliff Stamp

    Cliff Stamp Banned BANNED

    Oct 5, 1998
    The regular INFI line is tempered harder than the M-INFI blades. RC is a measure of how compressible the material is, which is how resistant it is to straight on deformation. Thus the INFI blades should resist being pushed in at the edge stronger than the M-INFI ones assuming similar profiles. There is a also a comparison somewhere on the web which shows that the INFI blades are stronger than the M-INFI ones in that they are able to resist more force without breaking at the blade/handle juncture. This can be extrapolated to show that the INFI blades have greater resistance in their edges to rolling / indenting from lateral forces.

    From work that I have done this seems to be the case. For example when I put a really coarse edge (x-coarse DMT) on my Basic and did some chopping (500 chops) I saw a performance decrease in slicing ability that could not be restored by steeling. When I repeated this with a fine India finish I could restore the slicing performance with a steel. What this shows is that the microserrations on the x-coarse finish are large enough that they break away under impact. When I repeated this with my Battle Mistress, steeling would restore the edge even when an x-coarse finish was used.

    The only drawback is that the M-INFI might be a little tougher, I am only guessing this because it is slightly softer. I have not stressed my BM in this regard yet so I have no data to support this. My BM is currently out on loan and once it comes back I will give the edge some hard impacts and compare it to the Basic.

    -Cliff

    [This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-03-2000).]
     
  6. sevenedges

    sevenedges Banned BANNED

    992
    Sep 14, 1999
    Thanks Cliff, for the info. Thats what I wanted to hear.I like my basic but I wish it was a little more resistance to impacts. However I just ground a little steeper edge on it and i'll see how it holds up. Later, Jeff

    p.s. I'll keep you posted. [​IMG]
     
  7. Andy Prisco

    Andy Prisco

    Nov 2, 1999
    ...looks like Cliff has the ball here. I'll check back later.

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  8. Cliff Stamp

    Cliff Stamp Banned BANNED

    Oct 5, 1998
    Jeff :

    This was the only problem I had with mine. It does have to be a fairly high pressure one though of decent velocity. For example digging through rocky soil or chopping hard woods are not problems, but hard wire can be.

    For example, I took a coathanger last night and chopped it up with my Basic #7 and my Battle Mistress. I was chopping on a spruce stump and making cuts about 1.3 to 1.6 deep in the 2.6 mm thick wire. These were hard chops the wire was being pushed right into the wood. I had some harder wood but I didn't want to use it as a base as I had it for something else and didn't want to beat it up.

    Anyway, the Basic was indenting fairly significantly taking semicircular hits about .6 mm in depth. The Battle Mistress on the other hand was being informed at a much smaller level. They had to be measured under a scope and were less than .2 mm in depth. The BM was also cutting into the wire better about 25%.

    The Basic was actually losing bits of the edge with the impacts. I think that the toughness was being exceded and that it was fracturing because of the more extensive compression. The Battle Mistress was just being very lightly flattened.

    Note both edges are thinner than the factory. My Basic has a v-ground included bevel angle of less than 30 degrees. The BM is slightly more obtuse about 35 degrees and has the dual grind. Neither one of these factors however could account for the size of the change here it indicates a difference in the material properties.

    -Cliff
     
  9. sevenedges

    sevenedges Banned BANNED

    992
    Sep 14, 1999
    Thanks again Cliff, I did some testing last night with the steeper bevel and came away with a good report. The blade suffered no deformation that is visible with the naked eye and when I performed the fingernail test it had absolutely no signs of wear. The edge held up to my expectaions like Ithougt it should. I think one of my earlier problems was that I initialy sharpened the blade at a lesser angle than factory, as is probably a little thin for the amount of chopping I was doing. I'll keep the thicker edge for now as I can't help but chop with it. Also good to know infi is even a little stronger, even if it doesnt show the same level toughness. Later, Jeff
     
  10. Cliff Stamp

    Cliff Stamp Banned BANNED

    Oct 5, 1998
    Jeff, a thinner bevel would be much more likely to indent or deform. These are using blades so by all means do some experimentation on the edge and find what works for you. Glad to see it worked out.

    Everything I have seen says INFI is actually tougher as well. My initial impression was that it might not be simply because it was harder. This rule does not hold across different alloys however and as I continue to work with it this does not seem to be the case at all. INFI seems to be tougher than M-INFI as well at least in the two blades I have.

    -Cliff
     
  11. sevenedges

    sevenedges Banned BANNED

    992
    Sep 14, 1999
    Wow, tougher too! That sounds like a dream knife, as i've never seen a blade thats as tough as the m-infi, ever. That Badger Attack order is getting closer all the time! Take care, Jeff [​IMG]
     
  12. Yvsa

    Yvsa

    May 18, 1999
    :
    I have a Basic 9 and my grand daughter had some old checks she needed destroyed so I told her to let me have them to chop up. I had a piece of firewood in my work room and unknown to me there were some very small rocks embeded in the end of it. Needless to say I indented it badly!! I used a slack piece of emory cloth to restore the convex edge and then another piece on a file to restore the flat grind on the other side of the blade. I got it back to the same condition as new. I used it to rough out a khukuri handle on a reasonablly piece of hard wood and experienced the same type of chipping only not as severe and there was no deformation.

    I had read where Cliff said he had put a conventional edge on his and thought I would do the same to see if my results matched his and they do.
    One thing I didn't pay attention too when I put the conventional edge on it was the degree of angle I used. After I experienced similar chipping and deformation I got out my protractor and done some checking. I had initialy honed a 10* angle on one side and 15* on the other. The large flat grind can be decieving in what the angle might be, or at least it was to me. I have rehoned it to 20* on each side for an included angle of 40* and first impressions are that it has improved the chipping and deformation problems I have had. I haven't used it enough since to make a real accurate determination as of yet.
    Thinking about it now I am pretty sure I used approximately the same angle on the left side of the blade as was originally there. I should have paid closer attention at the time.

    I really like my Basic 9 and for me the change to a conventional edge has made it much easier to mantain. I don't have a large fine ceramic steel as yet and that may have caused some of my difficulty with the factory edge or just not being used to such an innovative concept.

    It looks as though I may have to have a Battle Mistress with the INFI steel since it appears from Cliff's statements to be quite a bit better for the way I use a knife. I believe that a person should be able to dig with a knife also. I sure wish they came in a 7" format.


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    >>>>---¥vsa---->®

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