INFI vs

[Walking Man]

I think it's spelled santoku.

Speaking as a bowie combatives practitioner, they're too heavy and too clumsy for my needs.

Speaking as someone who is just getting into wilderness survivalism, and will need a knife that can and has proven to withstand "abuse"...it's really tough to beat the Busse reputation. You just can't beat the satisfaction of owning a knife that can take abuse, and if it fails in any way, the company will fix/replace, no questions asked.

In this somewhat specific field of tough survival knives, Busse's reputation is king.

1) Jerry did make a kitchen knife at one time.
2)Jerry doesn't often make Bowies, If you really a fair comparison, order a custom Bowie, otherwise, don't compare apples w/ oranges.
3) There are a few fighters out there, you have keep your eyes open though. Most are utility knives, because that's what people want.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

I think it's spelled santoku.

I have a love/hate relationship with Busse knives.

Speaking as a bowie combatives practitioner, they're too heavy and too clumsy for my needs.

Speaking as someone who is just getting into wilderness survivalism, and will need a knife that can and has proven to withstand "abuse"...it's really tough to beat the Busse reputation. You just can't beat the satisfaction of owning a knife that can take abuse, and if it fails in any way, the company will fix/replace, no questions asked.

In this somewhat specific field of tough survival knives, Busse's reputation is king.

I have a few custom fighters. Give Jerry a call and discuss what you want, he is really backordered on Customs so it may take a while but you won't be disappointed. They are incredibly quick in the hand.

Drop me an email if you want to see a few pics of what he can do when he has been drinking enough

 

[sodak]

Thanks for the info Eric, I had an active duty and it didn't compare in cutting ability to my sebenza, for things that I cut, boxes paper, rope, and similar. You make a good point that they could be thinned down, but if you want a thinner knife I'm not sure why you'd buy a thick one in the first place.

DaveH, you make a good point about needing to consider everything about the knife. The geometry and heat treat are also very important.

I do consider the grind on Busse's a little too thick for my liking, but not thicker than other manufacturers. Also, I never called and asked for a thinner grind, so my fault there. But to answer your last statement, I never would have thought that I wanted a thicker knife with a very acute grind until - I bought a Swamp Rat Bandicoot. A very underappreciated knife, IMO. I was having trouble with it, and finally said enough! I put it on my Edgepro and ground that baby down to about 15 deg or so. It has a high saber grind which is almost a flat grind. To give you an idea of how it looked, I wore off probably 3/8 to 1/2 an inch off the black coating creating a very thin primary grind. Now I can sharpen it by putting a small microbevel on it with a fine stone in around 2 minutes, tops. The 52100 (excuse me, SR101) is plenty tough for this kind of treatment, and it now has a more acute profile than my Moras.

So now I have an almost perfect utility knife. It has a respirin C handle, so it's warm(ish) in cold weather, it's thick enough (but not too thick) to be extremely strong, and the edge is thin enough to EASILY outcut my Moras. Easily. And, being a good high carbon steel with a very thin profile, I can sharpen it very quickly. Not too big, not too small. I will admit that it's as ugly as sin, but it grows on you.... If I could post pictures, I would, but I sent a couple to Eric a while back, if he still has them, he's got my permission to put 'em up. I asked what he thought, and he was quite tactful in not yelling, "What did you do to this poor little knife?" I did butcher it badly, but it sure makes you smile when you use it. One of my favorite EDC fixed blades.

 

[4 Ranges]

Dr. Thor:

Good memory! I love my Magnum EU-17. I wish I had more; I'm always scouring the exchange forums for one that will pop up. Chop a branch, accidentally hit a rock, no problems. It's a truly worry free piece because I know that, if something happened to it, I just have to post it on the busse forum, and they'll offer to fix it no problem.

To top it off...I've been on this forum since 2003, and I've never really heard of a complaint regarding busses/infi's. That says a lot.

Walking Man:

Apples and oranges? I re-read my post, and I wasn't comparing Busses to anything.

Eric:

Howzit going man? I still have my eye on those custom rats, especially that custom safari skinner.

I'll have to give Jerry a call someday about a custom order, although my custom order money is pretty much focused on Bagwell Bowies right now (I have two coming in this month; will probably order more).

I would be interested in a subhilt fighter from Jerry at some point in the future.

 

[averageguy]

"Dave,
This just isn't true, it is a false claim that continues to be spread by lack of knowledge or just plain ignorance. There are many Busses out there that have extremely thin edges, and if you don't think they are thin enough for your intended use, just ask and they'll thin them down even further. I don't know any other production companies that would put the edge on the knife that you want."

While you may be able to order a custom (at what price) with a thinner edge,
the Busse and SR knives I've owned have had the thickest edges I've ever seen on a knife. Period.
These knives meet the most rigid definition of "sharpened prybar". INFI offers excellent edge retention hence the performance on cutting sections of rope - but these are not optimised as cutting tools.
I've never seen an MS knife with anything close to this geometry. I don't see where Busse knives fall into the definition of a knife as put forth by the NCKG. I guess we are all ignorant.

 

[4 Ranges]

In addition:

My personal collection/tastes has sorted my knives out into 3 categories:

1) Fighters - this is where my Bagwells/Randalls/Cold Steels/OVB fall into. Although I know they can do double duty, for me, they're primarily fighters that see medium-chore work at most. But they're the ones I train with, and the ones I rely on for SD purposes.

2) Survivals - this is where my Swamp Rat/Busse collection fall into. They'll pry, dig, get thrown into lava, etc. Sure if I needed them for SD, they can do the job, but not quite to my personal liking. Bill Bagwell and I come from the same bowie combatives background, which basically leads to Keating. So when I order something from him, he knows specifically what I'm talking about when I need a bowie that can flow from high backcut to punta reversa to punta mandritta in no time flat.

Swamp Rats/Busses fulfill my ultra-abuse needs that is NOT combat/SD oriented. They do that job really well.

3) Folders - these need to fulfill both needs, but in a more urban setting.

No knock on Busse at all, because they do the jobs I want them to do, and they do them well.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

While you may be able to order a custom (at what price) with a thinner edge,
the Busse and SR knives I've owned have had the thickest edges I've ever seen on a knife. Period.

A thinner edge can be put on any Busse and it is my understanding there is no extra charge. Whenever Busse is mentioned on the forums your complaints are always the same , if you don't like them then don't buy them. But your rhetoric is getting old.

Have you ever asked them to put a thinner edge on one? If not then you don't really have much room to complain.

I suppose Sodak doesn't know what he is talking about either, since he likes his Bandicoot that he thinned the edge on (outcuts a Mora was his statement) Of course if he had asked that edge could have been added at the shop.

Complain if you'd like to complain, you most likely will continue because it seems to be your "goal" in life to bash Busse whenever possible. I'd rather not complain, I'd rather get results(and the results can be had by asking)


hhmmm, cuts rope (2771 pieces) but not optimized for cutting, that's an interesting statement. How do you think they cut that rope, if the knife is not optimized to cut?

BTW, all the Beckers I've handled had thicker edges than any of my Busses.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I do consider the grind on Busse's a little too thick for my liking ...

When you work with blades for awhile you realize that the edge which is optimal for you isn't for someone else, this means unless you get a true custom (made to order) you will very likely have to adjust the profile. This is no more different than an ABS knife or a Busse knife, the profile depends on what the user wants it to so, their physical ability, skill, and method.

Even if all these are very close the materials can influence it, the same profile which is optimal for clear pine doesn't work well for spruce. Thus if I get an ABS bowie (and I have used them), the edge would still have to be reground depending on the wood type and limbing is different than chopping.

Whenever Busse is mentioned on the forums your complaints are always the same ...

There is nothing wrong with complaints, it would be nice if they were valid though. Comparing a Busse to a ABS bowie and saying it isn't a knife is kind of poor logic. I have knives which are thinner in cross section compared to an ABS bowie than the ABS knife is to a Busse, thus can I call the ABS bowies not knives?

The recent knife that Razorback tested, a small utility/hunter in D2 had a grind *WAY* thicker than my SHBM. I handled an FSH awhile back, it was 0.035" at the edge, ground under 20 degrees per side. Is this really thick for a tactical - no, in fact it is thinner than most and if you dip significantly under this you risk rippling the edge even on hard wood work.

If you don't want to do any of this, and want a knife for just lighter work then just ask for an edge modification.

...all the Beckers I've handled had thicker edges than any of my Busses.

The old ones, Machax and similar were really heavy edged, the CU/7 and similar are thinner, you see variances in production of course, TOP's and Strider in general run heavier edges as do most of the tactical knives. You also have to consider the influence of the primary grind, Busse runs higher than many with the common use of low sabre grinds. Plus the new convex grinds and the funky mini-fullers will influence cutting performance as well.


-Cliff

 

[nozh2002]

I think Dave talking about thikness of the blade and grind, not about edge (which is up to owner to my opinion to make - i did it for SAR Rat myself). However, Busse made thin blade knives - Leaner Meaner Street with .150" blade. You may check http://www.bussecompanystore.com/knives.htm, but they do not selling it anymore there.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

While you may be able to order a custom (at what price) with a thinner edge,
the Busse and SR knives I've owned have had the thickest edges I've ever seen on a knife. Period.
These knives meet the most rigid definition of "sharpened prybar". INFI offers excellent edge retention hence the performance on cutting sections of rope - but these are not optimised as cutting tools.
I've never seen an MS knife with anything close to this geometry. I don't see where Busse knives fall into the definition of a knife as put forth by the NCKG. I guess we are all ignorant.

Utter nonsense. . . Again. What grudge do you have against Busse/Swamp Rat? Why spout disinformation and propeganda?

My flat ground Rat Daddy CG has a thin edge and slices well- in addition to its massive chopping ability. The lie about the high cost of getting a thin edged knife is nonsensical. I just sent my SAR Rat in to be thinned out at NO CHARGE.

I guess we are all ignorant

No, just you, or anyone who believes your rhetoric.

 

[t1mpani]

You want a REALLY thick edge? Find a Becker Brute/Campanion. That was just for you, Average.

P.S. For a guy who spends this much time on a knife forum, one would think the art of setting your own edge angles would have been learned. I have thinned many out and thickened others up. It's part of this crazy new school of thought that there are different tools for different applications. I understand the difficulty, however: it is hard to get out of the elastic-waistbanded 'one size fits all' way of thinking once it has been adopted.

P.P.S. There are actually eight periods above. If you use the dots instead of spelling them it saves space.

P.P.P.S. Now thirteen.

P.P.P.P.S. Aw man, they just keep comin'...

 

[averageguy]

Yes, the Becker Companion is very "Busse like" and I've owned some Greco and early Siegle knives that rivaled Busse and SR for the thickest edge.
However, although there may be a few others out there as thick, the Busse and SR knives have the thickest edges I've ever seen - and generally speaking this geometry is unique to Busse.
The thick edge is the result of a grind that leaves the blade too thick at the edge. It's nice that Busse will reprofile the edge for you but to get a more correct grind, one would have to custom order - at what price?

See below the wonderful grinds on these two 5" Busse knives. Keep in mind that these are mid sized blades and not 10" choppers.

There's no denying the aesthetic appeal and the allure of INFI that is Busse knives. That is why I continue to buy on rare occasion - my frustration is born of disapointment. It is my profound hope that someday I will be able to purchase a reasonably priced Busse / SR knife with a reasonable blade geometry / edge.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

However, although there may be a few others out there as thick, the Busse and SR knives have the thickest edges I've ever seen - and generally speaking this geometry is unique to Busse.

Interesting defination of unique. I have seen lots of tactials which were far thicker at the edge, with more obtuse edge angles and thicker primary grinds. How many low sabre grinds are common on tacticals for example compared to the full flat / convex grinds Busse uses?

It's nice that Busse will reprofile the edge for you but to get a more correct grind, one would have to custom order - at what price?

It isn't "correct" in general, simply because you prefer it one way doesn't mean someone else would, as noted there isn't a cost, you just have to ask.

Keep in mind that these are mid sized blades and not 10" choppers.

They are mid sized tactical knives, compare them to other mid sized tacticals promoted for similar uses. Busse makes lighet use knives, mainly through Swamp Rat for example the Safari Skinner and Rat Trap, these compare well to hunting knives and utility folders in general in regards to edge profile geometry.

-Cliff

 

[t1mpani]

Just tell them you want whatever edge angle you want, and that's what they'll do. It won't cost you anything at all.

Well let's see, other knives with as thick, or thicker, grinds:
Cold Steel
TOPS
Strider
Beckers (aforementioned)
Entrek
SOG (Trident, Bowie, Tigershark)
Kabar
Ranger
Gerber (BMF, LMF, Bowie)

Yeah, unique just ain't what it used to be.

 

[Angelus1781]

Never had an issue with too thick edges either on Swamprat or busse.


I used the pair of them to make 550lbs of salsa. Though it was the HR and an ARK. Ark was harder cause of the serrations but the choli worked well. Wish I had any kind of MS.

Still the sliced and diced well. Other wise the it would have been more like mush instead of spicey chunky delight.



hmm...that last part sounded like a porn site.

 

[averageguy]

The proof is in the pictures - fattest edges in the business.

 

[Crushenator 500]

Man... have you even been reading the posts in here? :/

 

[t1mpani]

Yes, go find the other knives mentioned and take some pictures also, unless you think that would be irrelevant. And as a by-the-way, the small basics did have the thickest edges ever put on a Busse knife. The were the exception, though, and have since been replaced by the smaller Swamp Rats and knives like the Active Duty with far thinner blades and edges. This was old news two years ago but I understand that you needed an extreme example.

Crushenator--he hasn't listened the first 200 times this has been talked about, why would he listen this time? The fact that it doesn't cost anything to get thinner edges put on by the factory when you order your knife has been discussed many times before. His soul intent is to have the last word. I don't know about the others, but I'm participating for the sport, not with any thought of actually getting through.

 

[Martin Swinkels]

I have three fixed Rats and the folder and except for the folder I found it nessecary to do make drastic changes to the edge profile.
The grind on my Bandicoot was even more obtuse then the grind on my Ratweiler which I don't get. The SARRat was right in between and needed to be flattened out a lot to make it a little bit of a slicer.
I don't think it's a problem cause it's fun to personalize your knives including the edge-profiles to suit your personal needs. I think it would be agreat idea to give all Rats a zero-edge grind so the user can decide for himself what kind of edge-profile is appropriate.

Take Care Y'all

martin
-loves his Rats

 

[averageguy]

That's funny.

Martin, you did some expert work reprofiling these. Beautiful knives.