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Can anyone help me with this material ?
How strog is it ?
Is it tougher than talonite ?
Thanks,
Joe
How strog is it ?
Is it tougher than talonite ?
Thanks,
Joe
-
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INFI ??
- Thread starter J. Jurianto
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I'd suggest going over to the Busse forum (or this or the general forum) and do a search. There is TONS of info on INFI. In short, it is one of the toughest steels there is, one of the best edge-holding steels there is, and resists rust nearly as well as ATS-34 (some say as well). In short, it is one of the (if not the ) best all-round steels there are.
There's a long thread on what "tough" means and whether Infi is the "toughest" material around. It gets technical to the point of splitting hairs, no pun intended. I love talonite and I love my Busses. They have quite different uses, for me. But boiling it all down, is Infi tougher than Talonite?
Yes.
Yes.
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Without slogging through all the references, can someone tell me, what is the feeling on talonite's toughness. My own experience tells me it's not very tough, so I'm surprised when someone asks if a very tough steel is "as tough as talonite"! I have seen specific recommendations by makers who are very knowledgeable about talonite, that edges be left a bit thicker -- often a sign that there's some toughness lacking.
Actually, now that I think about, I'm not quite sure how to interpret my own talonite testing results. The deformations I saw were neither clearly chips (toughness problem) nor indentations (strength problem), so I guess I really don't know whether the "thicker edge" recommendations are to make up for strength or toughness.
Is talonite generally viewed as tough? Thanks!
Joe
Actually, now that I think about, I'm not quite sure how to interpret my own talonite testing results. The deformations I saw were neither clearly chips (toughness problem) nor indentations (strength problem), so I guess I really don't know whether the "thicker edge" recommendations are to make up for strength or toughness.
Is talonite generally viewed as tough? Thanks!
Joe
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- 8,888
I think from his past testing/reports that Cliff considers Talonite basically "weak and tough".
Meaning that you can roll or fold a Talonite edge more readily than many steels, but won't be likely to chip or fracture it. Neither of which qualities is surprising given its elemental makeup and HRC.
I guess I must be crazy trying to paraphrase Cliff Stamp--I'll likely be attacked from all sides. Probably should go look for my flame retardant suit and Level IV body armor. Yeah...good idea...give me just a minute before you commence firing, guys.
Thanks--Will
Meaning that you can roll or fold a Talonite edge more readily than many steels, but won't be likely to chip or fracture it. Neither of which qualities is surprising given its elemental makeup and HRC.
I guess I must be crazy trying to paraphrase Cliff Stamp--I'll likely be attacked from all sides. Probably should go look for my flame retardant suit and Level IV body armor. Yeah...good idea...give me just a minute before you commence firing, guys.
Thanks--Will
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2000
- Messages
- 3,794
In short it's rahter awkward
Looked like a micro saw.
Overall the edge holding was good on cardboard.
As of comparing it toughness wise to INFI I think it's not valid. Rob Simonich would agree
------------------
zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
[This message has been edited by Gator97 (edited 06-13-2001).]
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gator97:
In short it's rahter awkwardThe other day I was cutting cardboard when I acidentally hit the tip of the blade on the concrete floor. Approx an inch was in quite bad shape. Multiple chips to be more exact
Looked like a micro saw.
Overall the edge holding was good on cardboard.
As of comparing it toughness wise to INFI I think it's not valid. Rob Simonich would agreeTalonit won't be good for chopping...
</font>
When you saw the talonite chipping, did they look exactly like the classic chipping that you'd see on a steel blade? I've heard of other people -- Rob is one, if I recall -- who have seen those weird deformation I saw, that are difficult to identify as chips or indents.
Joe
[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 06-13-2001).]
Cliff Stamp
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Talonite is soft so it is readily indented, it is weak so it is readily deformed. Combine these and you can fail the edge under low to moderate effort. When it does fail it is by plastic deformation until you reach the limit of fracture in which case the material rips.
I have seen the same types of failure in steels with similar properties. A large bowie for example with AISI-420 class steel when used on hardwoods got quarter+ sized deformations along the edge. As the work continued these deformations grew and then ripped as the ductility was passed.
I saw the same type of damage to a much lesser extent on the Becker Machax. I thought the edge was chipping but when I inspected it under a scope I clearly saw deformations and after more use, the edge was fractured in the same place (there is generally a lot of writing on my blades around damage points as I log the causes).
In regards to toughness, Talonite seemed to me to be above some stainless steels in the 60 RC range from what I saw when i failed the edges of smiilar profiled knives (ATS-34, VG-10). The stainless ones tended to fracture with sharp angular edges to the chips whereas the Talonite blade (mine not one of Wills) would indent, deform and then rip under repeated stress.
As to what this means for heavy use, the damage that the stainless blade took was much lower in depth and was removed much quicker during sharpening. While the Talonite blade resisted fracture more, the level of indendation and deformation was much greater. The Talonite blade would likely have an advantage if you were subjecting the blades to high lateral shocks or beating on the spine as it would not deform/indent there as it would on the edge as its not a point load. I'll take mine apart later on and comment on the results.
INFI is both significantly stronger and tougher. Talonite is more corrosion resistant is has a very high resistance to wear in unlubricated abrasion, with a very high resistance to galling. In regards to edge retention, this is a function of strength and toughness on most materials, I would given INFI a clear advantage here (it would be readily outperformed by 10V unless you exceeded its toughness which isn't difficult), Talonite would only outperform it if you were cutting something that was abrasive enough to wear down the edge without providing enough force to roll it, maybe fiberglass insulation.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 06-14-2001).]
I have seen the same types of failure in steels with similar properties. A large bowie for example with AISI-420 class steel when used on hardwoods got quarter+ sized deformations along the edge. As the work continued these deformations grew and then ripped as the ductility was passed.
I saw the same type of damage to a much lesser extent on the Becker Machax. I thought the edge was chipping but when I inspected it under a scope I clearly saw deformations and after more use, the edge was fractured in the same place (there is generally a lot of writing on my blades around damage points as I log the causes).
In regards to toughness, Talonite seemed to me to be above some stainless steels in the 60 RC range from what I saw when i failed the edges of smiilar profiled knives (ATS-34, VG-10). The stainless ones tended to fracture with sharp angular edges to the chips whereas the Talonite blade (mine not one of Wills) would indent, deform and then rip under repeated stress.
As to what this means for heavy use, the damage that the stainless blade took was much lower in depth and was removed much quicker during sharpening. While the Talonite blade resisted fracture more, the level of indendation and deformation was much greater. The Talonite blade would likely have an advantage if you were subjecting the blades to high lateral shocks or beating on the spine as it would not deform/indent there as it would on the edge as its not a point load. I'll take mine apart later on and comment on the results.
INFI is both significantly stronger and tougher. Talonite is more corrosion resistant is has a very high resistance to wear in unlubricated abrasion, with a very high resistance to galling. In regards to edge retention, this is a function of strength and toughness on most materials, I would given INFI a clear advantage here (it would be readily outperformed by 10V unless you exceeded its toughness which isn't difficult), Talonite would only outperform it if you were cutting something that was abrasive enough to wear down the edge without providing enough force to roll it, maybe fiberglass insulation.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 06-14-2001).]