info for a new LEO

universible

universible

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No, its not me...but my good budy from high school was just hired by the Santa Clara Police, and is currently going through the academy. I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice I could pass on to him. The reason I ask is that he's not the most....physical person I've ever met. I mean, he's in shape and all that, but never competed in sports, and also has never had so much as a heated conversation with someone. I was a bit worried and arranged some free time to come train with me where I work out...doing some simulations and such...but he passed on it saying that the Academy would teach him whatever he needs to know. That excuse is what left a bad taste in my mouth...I don't doubt that he'll learn a lot of new things there, but I am a bit worried about what he won't learn.

So, any thoughts? Bits of wisdom? Should I just stay out of his shtuf and let him figure it out?

Thanks,

Ted
 
I have been training with LEO'S for several years now. Not on a full time bases but regularly enough to know that your friend will not be given all he needs to know at the academy. I hesit to say bad things about any academy that I do not have first hand knowledge of. On the other hand right now I am training with officers from 3 different police departments who went to 3 different police academies and here is what i have found. They were taught a very basic form of h2h and after several years on the job these people have found a need to take outside training to enhance there knowledge base as the approved lesson plan does not deal with these peoples concerns. 2 of these officers are personal tatics instructors. The academies do what they can within the time and money constrants they have. Over the last 20 years of trainig in the martial arts I have seen this same pattern repeated time and again. I hope you will be able to covince your friend to seek out further training after he becomes an officer. Reality is IMHO no school or academy does anything more than provide a base from which a person can start to learn his craft and those who do not continue to seek out and learn short change themselves and those who depend on them.
 
I am an instructor at the NYC police academy and i strongly suggest more training than the academy can give. Here we are hampered by having so many students in the gym at one time. During my time on patrol and in various units, i thanked GOD many times for all the training i did before and after the academy. Just my opinion of course but you should do everything possible to get your freind into a Karate school or boxing gym. At some point it WILL be a matter of life and death.
 
Thanks for the input. So far, since he's taken the stance that he doesn't really need any more than he'll be taught...I've tried to at least make sure that he knows he should question and drill realistically the things that they are trying to teach him. He said they are going to do joint locks or something this week. I suggested he make sure he has a good partner and works them realistically, not just "here give me your arm" kind of stuff.

I recently heard that a couple of weeks ago a rookie cop was found dead in his patrol car...right by the suburban neighborhood I use to live in. I guess he was lured into some sort of psycho trap or something...just hearing about that made me think about my friend, and his acceptance of ignorance. I'm hoping he, in the least, seeks out training on his own after he gets the academy out of the way. I just don't want the "reality" call from him when something bad happens. Probably doesn't help that I pushed him so hard to come and work out...but I'd rather have a friend that IS a cop, than a friend that WAS a cop.

Ted
 
I always found it was easy to get into fights if you wanted to, and there are always a few guys who want to. Much better to back the other guy down without a big confrontation, and much easier on the ol' bod as well.
Problem is, it's hard to explain how to do this.... Confidence, "presence", body language; you have to convey to the BG that you are ready and able to "go" if need be- while at the same time remaining calm and authoritive.
In any department, you'll notice the guys who always seem to be having "resisting" situations, and those who just bring in most of thier prisoners with no big fuss.
 
The Academy will teach to a training standard. It will be a step up for most people who, up to that point in their lives, have been walking around in a daze regarding their personal safety.

Is it everything he needs to know? Not at all. Part of being a professional is ongoing training for his entire career. Among all the professions, police work seems to have the most "experts" on various subjects. Being a sworn member doesn't give you special powers or knowledge. The individuals that are the "real deal" earned their skills through hard work outside paid duty hours. I am always amazed at individuals that won't attend training unless it is mandatory or if they are paid to attend.

I don't know any doctor or lawyer that is willing to go to work with less than the best knowledge, skill and equipment they can bring to the table. They will take every advantage they can get. If a lawyer screws up on the job their client loses. If a surgeon screws up the patient may die. If a police officer screws up...well, there can be a lot of bad outcomes including his/her death. Why are some police willing to "make do" with Academy training alone?

As a police officer I owe it to myself, my partner, the public and especially my family to take every advantage available.

"Train hard. Win easy." A common phrase among trainers around here. Makes sense to me.
 
Mybe you could wake him up a bit...

Go to a movie with him or something, turn down an alley and grab him and out him in a gillotine or some kind of lock/hold. That might wake him up and show him that a) he isn't tactically aware, and b) he needs more training, or else he'll end up choked out or dead on the street. One of the best lessons I learned at a JKD seminar was when a partner started a drill before the instructor said go. It only took one slap in the balls, and I have never forgotten that lesson.
 
You know, I've thought of that...but I'm more worried about direct confrontations....I don't think he really knows how he'll react with people getting into his face and all that.

He definetly needs to get more training after the Academy. I can tell already...I just hope he isn't one of the types that just figures he's got all he needs after the Academy. And the "cool" response he gave when he got his gun was kinda scary...."Wow, cool, I get a gun"

Anyhow, thanks for the ideas. When he's done with his first bit of training, I'm sure his partner will also help him out.

Ted
 
Your friend, best case scenario, is "cruisin for a bruisin". I don't know his rationale but, if he is counting on academy DT training exclusively to prepare himself for a confrontation, he is in for a rude awakening. Many BGs have been fighting all their lives; with their families, with their neighborhood, with school, with rival gang members, etc. They may or may not have much skill, but they know what it's like to be beaten, cut, or shot. Over the last month or two, I've met a couple of inmates who are "cage fighters" (UFC minor leagues).

A week or two of basic force/personal weapons in the academy is not going to cut it. The DI's realize that, due to time constraints, recruits are not going to given as much training as they need and they strongly recommend that everyone, if they haven't already, join a gym/school and consistently train after graduation and throughout their careers.

In law enforcement, my opinion is that there is no excuse for not training. Your life or your partner's life may depend on it. I have a little experience and, when I try to share it with my partners, most of them don't make the effort to learn. Some of the reasons are understandable, i.e. family, work, other personal issues etal. But "I have a gun, I'll just shoot them" or "my partners will back me up" is not.

From my experience, the guys on my department who do train, can kick some butt. For the most part, however, they are in the minority. When I've helped out our force training unit for patrol school (and at the academy level), I've noticed that most trainees are not skilled enough or not mentally prepared enough for a physical confrontation.

I don't have a "tougher than you" attitude because I've been choked out, arm barred, had my bell rung, etc too many times by too many different people. Sometimes, and I hope this is the case with your friend, people don't train because they have no idea what's out there or how unprepared they really are.

I really like Crayola's idea. Find some unassuming-looking guy or gal with experience/ability and have that person Kick Your Friend's Butt in a "clean/friendly" UFC- type fight (with no weapons and no dirty techniques). Then point out how much Worse it could have been.

Humility-wise and however skilled/experienced you are, you should still realize that, On any given day, there's going to be someone who can kick your butt. Officer survival-wise, the way you think should be, Ok, but it ain't going to be TODAY, and it ain't going to be HIM.

Try to have him train with some good people, "just to see what it's like". When I work out with beginners, I see how far I've come. When I work out with my partners and instructors, I see how far I still need to go.
 
Sounds to me like your friend has already made up his mind. If you push him hard and harp at him over a subject which he already (thinks) he knows about, then he may just dig his heels in and ignore you. Worst case scenario, you become estranged because he thinks you're trying to tell him how to go about his new career!

I would also have to say that Crayola's suggestion about trying to give him an idea of what physical confrontation is really like is flawed because these things can get badly out of hand. Some of the most vicious fights I've ever seen have been between friends. I would steer clear of extreme measures like 'showing him how it is on the street'.

Also, while this seems to go against the views of the majority of posters, I feel that people have to make their own mistakes and learn from them, even if this involves a degree of risk. Not to be too callous, but if you've done what you can, then I think you should let it be.

Good thread.
 
Universible,
Sounds like your friend may be one of those guys who's taking the job just because it's a good job, has decent benefits,etc., is just there for a paycheck, wants to do his 20 and collect a pension. I hope I'm wrong about him cause these guys usually end up getting their partners or innocent civilians hurt. The guys who make the best cops are the guys who dreamed about it growing up and have been preparing for it for years.
He needs a reality check but I don't think the surprise attack is the way to go, too many things can go wrong. Maybe you know another cop who might be willing to talk to him or maybe you can get him to read some of JerryVanCook's stuff. For his own sake, something needs to wake this guy up to harsh reality.
Kevin H., do they still have that museum of weapons and stuff that cops have taken off of people in Manhattan? I was there in the 60's on a school trip and that place made an impression on me that lasts to this day. This was after the 50's when street gangs were really popular in NY and the different weapons and the ingenious ways they had of hiding them was unbelievable. This guy needs to get to a place like this and see what he's up against.
Universible, you're a good friend to care about him but if you push too hard, he'll just resist harder. Try to make him think it's his idea.

Dave
 
Lifter, Slip...everyone...thanks for the advice. My friend is a good guy...funny that I've known him about 10 years and he's never mentioned wanting to be a cop. We graduated from high school and then went to the same college. He was studying to be an engineer...but he wasn't really into it. Then one day, after I had graduated, he called me and said he wanted to get together and talk. I said ok, and then hung up...wondering what he wanted to talk about. I was thinking maybe he and his wife were getting seperated, or they were going to have a kid...something like that. He then told me about how he'd been researching it for about 6 months. He decided that he wanted to be a cop in our hometown, and said a bunch of times how he's always wanted to do it, but never really looked into it. So Lifter...like you, at first I was really worried when he said he wanted to be a cop. I mean, I've spent some time with cops and my friend seems to share a lot of the same qualities. But does that make him a good cop? No way....

I've pointed him to a few sites, and am thinking of getting him some good reading material...but he's very stubborn...and proud I guess. I get the feeling that he feels a little threatened that I am trying to share all this stuff with him. I just remember the weird look I gave him when I started studying muay thai, then when I started doing cqc and exec protection classes...so I thought he wasn't interested in that sort of thing.

I wouldn't try the ambush thing...I could see that turning into a huge mess. I might, however...talk him into training with me for just one day or something. Nothing hardcore, but just to see where he's at.

So, what sorts of books should I suggest to him? Which VanCook? Anything else? I haven't read much of the books on this stuff.

He's been doing a lot of ride alongs, so I hope that helps too.

Thanks again guys, helps a lot

Ted
 
You know what,....... your friend is not the first to go through the academy or serve in that department. He will learn all he needs from his field training officer and other cops as time moves along. Cops have one advantage. A radio and team work. If you look at the average police force you will see all kinds of large and small men and women of varying talents. They all are not rambo. Everyone on a police force does not shoot well and even fewer are good at hand to hand, and even if they are in a street fight they are likely to get their butts handed to them unless they street fight. Gouging out eyes is not approved by most departments. But a lot of the time they are not going up against good street fighters. Just drunks and brawlers and amatuer tough guys. Cops are very good at dealing with, what they deal with everyday. They deal with guys who want to be tough all the time and survive nicely.

Most cops I know play the odds. They learn when to fight and when to wait for the Marines. But I think its a little ridiculous to think that every cop is going to spend his off time shooting and learning more martial arts and CQB skills. Wait until he hits the streets and learns from the people that already have the T-shirt. Also a lot of what cops do nowadays is just social work anyway. Maybe he will be better suited to part of it. He has more potential in a fight than many of the women cops I see.
 
I still think having your friend spar with someone skilled is a good idea. I was thinking more along the lines of a sparring match in a controlled environment rather than an ambush, but still being able to feel what it's like to get rocked and maybe not being able to get someone off of you after going to the ground. Neither is nice, but you need to learn ways to deal with them.

Many people think they are the baddest person on the block until they get their butt handed to them. Most people will have a plan until they get hit. Most people will not know how they will respond to an emergent situation until it happens. The more time one spends in that "adrenal state" the better (simulating it is better than nothing).

Although I feel that I'm a better shot than "most people", I don't practice shooting enough and I should shoot more. Although I am probably more trained than "most people", I don't train hard/often enough and I should train more.

If you only train enough to be able to handle drunk/unskilled opponents, you probably won't be able to handle that person from the top 5%. If you train enough to be able to handle some of that top 5%, you will probably be able to handle all the drunk/unskilled opponents.

If you think that the law enforcement has gotten easier or the risks have lessened or that you will always have immediate backup (how quickly can things turn to crap? how quickly can one get seriously hurt? I know of an agency, one of the largest in CA/US that sometimes has 45 minute code-3 assistance roll ETAs...), you are asking Mr Murphy to sit up and take notice of you.

I believe that, due in part to hiring practices affected by societal pressure (quantity or quota vs quality), it is now easier to become sworn and the average individual officer physical capability level has dropped. If you know that you have partners that can't pack their mud, that's all the more reason to prepare yourself and lessen your dependency on them.

It is good that he is going on rides. If possible, I would not recommend waiting until he hits the streets to learn things, train, or practice. First month of patrol training, a good friend of mine got into 3 officer-involved shootings; he's fine. Plus, there are altogether too many first-week trainee horror stories out there.

There are so many things that we will not be able to change or have control over. Don't ignore the things that we can change or have control over. Vietnam vet/pow Charlie Plumb is a motivational speaker with some very good points - life is full of choices, it is a choice in itself.
 
Sorry if I sound like a know-it-all. I'm just very opinionated (some say hard-headed/stubborn) and passionate when it comes to officer safety / training issues. :)
 
Universible, glad to hear it, I'm sure he'll do alright.
Check out Paladin books, they carry the VanCook books as well as alot of other good ones. Anyone got their website handy?

Dave
 
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