Info on CRKT Knives

[Quiet]

The RAT 1 was a re-ground cerakoted knife from Razor Edge's passaround, not my knife. Are you going to continue to try to provoke me or do you want to instead talk about the thread topic?

Actually, the thread topic has been well covered, it seems. The fact is, you keep saying that people don't know what they're talking about. Well, I do. And I don't agree with your assessment.

The only CRKT I've held that was actually really good, was the BT70. It was entirely too heavy, it costs way more than the materials should command, but the design is good. The fit and finish? Halfway decent. But I certainly wouldn't point to it as some sign that suddenly all CRKT products are quality items now and those who disagree must not know what they're talking about.

 

[Cosmic Superchunk]

I've already stated in a previous post in this thread what I think of their China models, particularly their folders. Their Taiwan models are decent. Not perfect, but acceptable for me and they're coniderably better than the Chinese ones. Yes, overall there are better knives on the market than CRKT, but that doesn't stop me from buying one if I really like the design. It just won't be their made in China models. Now if some of you guys dig their low end Chinese stuff, then knock yourselves out. They're just not for me.

 

[Quiet]

Like whats'isname a few pages back who kept going on about that one CRKT that won Blade last year. Yeah, that knife was built by Lionsteel and CRKT slapped a badge on it. That was the extent of their involvement. So, should they be getting accolades for their quality? Of course not, they had to go to a knife company known for making quality products to get it made, so they'd be sure the Hi Jinx was a quality product.

 

[craytab]

Like whats'isname a few pages back who kept going on about that one CRKT that won Blade last year. Yeah, that knife was built by Lionsteel and CRKT slapped a badge on it. That was the extent of their involvement. So, should they be getting accolades for their quality? Of course not, they had to go to a knife company known for making quality products to get it made, so they'd be sure the Hi Jinx was a quality product.

And let's not for get the price tag and the extreme limited availability.

 

[brancron]

Actually, the thread topic has been well covered, it seems. The fact is, you keep saying that people don't know what they're talking about. Well, I do. And I don't agree with your assessment.

The only CRKT I've held that was actually really good, was the BT70. It was entirely too heavy, it costs way more than the materials should command, but the design is good. The fit and finish? Halfway decent. But I certainly wouldn't point to it as some sign that suddenly all CRKT products are quality items now and those who disagree must not know what they're talking about.

I kept saying that the specific people I was going back and forward with didn't know what they were talking about, and they basically admitted as much. Now you're saying you've handled most of their recent stuff, so at least there's something to work with. Now if you promise to ease up on the witty internet barbs, we can actually have the potential for a constructive discussion. On to knife discussion:

So, I'm holding in my hand this CRKT Eros:

I've obviously had some work done on it (acid/stonewash and new tip-up clip installed). But even without those changes, the quality of the knife is outstanding: great grind on the blade, great machining on the handle, blade is perfectly centered, extremely smooth action, flips beautifully, early but secure lockup without a hint of blade play, good steel that holds a decent edge, and incredibly light. You may or may not like the aesthetics, but if I were to hand you this knife I guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find a flaw in it.

Now, how about another one:

This Squid has had some grinding done on it, but nothing other than that. It opens smoothly, locks up solidly, has even grinds (I put a very thin edge on it), and overall has an excellent fit and finish. Not as good as the Eros, but very, very good for the sticker price of $20. This is another knife I could hand to you and defy you to tell me how it's not worth every penny of its asking price. The steel isn't great, but 8Cr13 is easy to put a hair popping edge onto, and sharpening is fun, so I don't see any problem with it in a budget knife.

Those are just two examples of CRKTs that I highly recommend. I can go on if you wish.

 

[Quiet]

I kept saying that the specific people I was going back and forward with didn't know what they were talking about, and they basically admitted as much. Now you're saying you've handled most of their recent stuff, so at least there's something to work with. Now if you promise to ease up on the witty internet barbs, we can actually have the potential for a constructive discussion. On to knife discussion:

So, I'm holding in my hand this CRKT Eros:

I've obviously had some work done on it (acid/stonewash and new tip-up clip installed). But even without those changes, the quality of the knife is outstanding: great grind on the blade, great machining on the handle, blade is perfectly centered, extremely smooth action, flips beautifully, early but secure lockup without a hint of blade play, good steel that holds a decent edge, and incredibly light. You may or may not like the aesthetics, but if I were to hand you this knife I guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find a flaw in it.

Now, how about another one:

This Squid has had some grinding done on it, but nothing other than that. It opens smoothly, locks up solidly, has even grinds (I put a very thin edge on it), and overall has an excellent fit and finish. Not as good as the Eros, but very, very good for the sticker price of $20. This is another knife I could hand to you and defy you to tell me how it's not worth every penny of its asking price. The steel isn't great, but 8Cr13 is easy to put a hair popping edge onto, and sharpening is fun, so I don't see any problem with it in a budget knife.

Those are just two examples of CRKTs that I highly recommend. I can go on if you wish.

Hold on, are you seriously attempting to show me knives you've modified as some indicator of a brand's quality? Really? I...um...uh, ok.

Also, this is my opinion only, but both of those knives are aesthetic eyesores and not something I'd find much good to say about in the first place. That's before we even started to discuss the quality of the knife. The Eros is not Onion's best work, but that's just me. Not trying to insult you personally here, just my opinion on those knives in specific.

To answer your question, for $20, I'd save up another eight bucks and get a Utilitac II, a knife that I've got multiples of, which are fantastic hard work knives for the money. Those RATS you find pedestrian? Amazing quality, and I've got knives that cost hundreds of dollars that don't flick open as smoothly as one of my RATs. Come to think of it, every Ontario product I've ever held has been perfect, grinds, fit and finish, and in the case of the Utilitac/RAT, all for around $30. Heck of a deal.

We could go on all night, but let me stop you here and just say this: if YOU think CRKT products are good*, more power to you. However, it's not your place to tell others they're wrong, or that they don't know what they're talking about. If we're being brutally honest here, it looks an awful lot like a case of "My opinion is more factually correct than your opinion", which logically doesn't pass the sniff check.

So, hey, if YOU like CRKT products, by all means, buy more, and throw more money at them getting them the way you want them. Many of us will buy products from other companies and be pleased with the purchase out of the box. Good deal.

As far as I'm concerned, CRKT and Gerber are kind of bedfellows in this regard. Just too many other great knives, made with better materials to really bother with products from either of those companies. That's not a widespread opinion for no reason.



*the fact that you reground or reprofiled the edges on both those knives speaks volumes

 

[brancron]

Hold on, are you seriously attempting to show me knives you've modified as some indicator of a brand's quality? Really? I...um...uh, ok.

Also, this is my opinion only, but both of those knives are aesthetic eyesores and not something I'd find much good to say about in the first place. That's before we even started to discuss the quality of the knife. The Eros is not Onion's best work, but that's just me. Not trying to insult you personally here, just my opinion on those knives in specific.

To answer your question, for $20, I'd save up another eight bucks and get a Utilitac II, a knife that I've got multiples of, which are fantastic hard work knives for the money. Those RATS you find pedestrian? Amazing quality, and I've got knives that cost hundreds of dollars that don't flick open as smoothly as one of my RATs. Come to think of it, every Ontario product I've ever held has been perfect, grinds, fit and finish, and in the case of the Utilitac/RAT, all for around $30. Heck of a deal.

We could go on all night, but let me stop you here and just say this: if YOU think CRKT products are good*, more power to you. However, it's not your place to tell others they're wrong, or that they don't know what they're talking about. If we're being brutally honest here, it looks an awful lot like a case of "My opinion is more factually correct than your opinion", which logically doesn't pass the sniff check.

So, hey, if YOU like CRKT products, by all means, buy more, and throw more money at them getting them the way you want them. Many of us will buy products from other companies and be pleased with the purchase out of the box. Good deal.

As far as I'm concerned, CRKT and Gerber are kind of bedfellows in this regard. Just too many other great knives, made with better materials to really bother with products from either of those companies. That's not a widespread opinion for no reason.



*the fact that you reground or reprofiled the edges on both those knives speaks volumes

How many times do I have to tell you that the people I was arguing with admittedly did not have any experience with the knives in question, so that they didn't have a basis for commenting on their quality?

I did not "regrind" the edges on both the knives. I thinned out the Squid's slightly because I like very thin edges. The edge was fine out of the box.

A Utilitac II is so completely different from a Squid that I don't even know how you'd jump from one to the other. If you were to offer an alternative to the Squid that was in any way similar to it, at the very least in terms of size, then perhaps we could compare them.

And the fact that the Utilitac II may be a "heck of deal" doesn't make the Squid any less of a heck of deal. Unless you're saying the Squid sucks, in which case, my reply is, well, mine doesn't, and I'm not ignorant when it comes to quality knives, so explain that. And before the pictured Squid I had the un-coated, stock Squid straight from the box, and it was just as great.

Apparently I didn't make it clear enough to you: the quality of the above-pictured knives was there from the beginning. The grinds smoothness, centering, lockup, etc. were all spot on before any modifications occurred. These are also just two examples of good knives from CRKT that I currently have. I can offer more examples if you like.

 

[K.O.D.]

And the flame war begins...

 

[brancron]

And the flame war begins...

I'm not trying to start a flame war. All I want to do is actually discuss knives. Notice, however, that no matter what I write--no matter how neutral or respectful--Quiet is going to shoot back with venom. Case in point is post #126 above.

 

[Lycosa]

Some of my CRKT knives are some of my favorites; Sampson KISS, M16FD, Mah Journeyer...
rolf

 

[craytab]

Almost all of CRKT's new lineup do not pas my requirements on paper, most not even close. Odd looking pocket clip. Pocket clip in wrong position. Pocket clip not repositionable. Blade too short. All metal handles (I can make exceptions on this if all the other boxes are ticked and they aren't with CRKT).

Then there is the big one: Price. I have said it many times in this thread but it keeps getting ignored. The value on CRKT knives is far too low for me. They make knives out of similar materials as other companies but charge far more for them. I've already given a couple examples here. Let's take a look at another one. The only folder that I was actually looking forward to in the 2015 lineup was the BT-70. A bit of a funky blade grind and semi strange pocket clip in my eye but I could look past them. One of the only knives to give me the blade length I like though. Then the price. Close to $100. This is for a foreign produced AUS8 knife! Not even SOG would be so audaciously stupid to ask such a price. I can get many of their VG-10 blades for that. That is passing most of the US made Kershaws. ZT has even had knives just a bit higher than that. Might as well spend the extra bucks and get a PM2. Cold Steel has tons of products that not only match this knife and cost less but surpass it in materials and cost less. How about the Spyderco VG-10 blades? I could go on and on and on. My goodness, the price on that thing is ridiculous!

Sorry, I'm not going to take a risk to try out the fit/finish, QC, and design flaw issues on knives I wouldn't want in the first place or knives that are WAY over priced. Their reputation is what they made it and they are not willing to compete with the top brands in order to correct it. I'll pass and I have no problem sharing my opinion. And yes, I know what I'm talking about :thumbup:

 

[Quiet]

I'm not trying to start a flame war. All I want to do is actually discuss knives. Notice, however, that no matter what I write--no matter how neutral or respectful--Quiet is going to shoot back with venom. Case in point is post #126 above.

Venom, apparently the new word for "Using logic that burns". Got it. :thumbup:

We're done here.

 

[Quiet]

Almost all of CRKT's new lineup do not pas my requirements on paper, most not even close. Odd looking pocket clip. Pocket clip in wrong position. Pocket clip not repositionable. Blade too short. All metal handles (I can make exceptions on this if all the other boxes are ticked and they aren't with CRKT).

Then there is the big one: Price. I have said it many times in this thread but it keeps getting ignored. The value on CRKT knives is far too low for me. They make knives out of similar materials as other companies but charge far more for them. I've already given a couple examples here. Let's take a look at another one. The only folder that I was actually looking forward to in the 2015 lineup was the BT-70. A bit of a funky blade grind and semi strange pocket clip in my eye but I could look past them. One of the only knives to give me the blade length I like though. Then the price. Close to $100. This is for a foreign produced AUS8 knife! Not even SOG would be so audaciously stupid to ask such a price. I can get many of their VG-10 blades for that. That is passing most of the US made Kershaws. ZT has even had knives just a bit higher than that. Might as well spend the extra bucks and get a PM2. Cold Steel has tons of products that not only match this knife and cost less but surpass it in materials and cost less. How about the Spyderco VG-10 blades? I could go on and on and on. My goodness, the price on that thing is ridiculous!

Sorry, I'm not going to take a risk to try out the fit/finish, QC, and design flaw issues on knives I wouldn't want in the first place or knives that are WAY over priced. Their reputation is what they made it and they are not willing to compete with the top brands in order to correct it. I'll pass and I have no problem sharing my opinion. And yes, I know what I'm talking about :thumbup:

Excellent post, I'm in agreement here 100%.

My friend Poceh let me borrow his BT70, and it's a great knife, and I really wanted/want one. But every time I get a hundo in my knife-buying pocket, I just keep finding better things to spend it on.

 

[K.O.D.]

I'm not trying to start a flame war. All I want to do is actually discuss knives. Notice, however, that no matter what I write--no matter how neutral or respectful--Quiet is going to shoot back with venom. Case in point is post #126 above.

You say you want to discuss knives, yet every time someone has an opinion you tell them they are wrong, try to force your opinion on people in an inflammatory way, thus making no one want to talk to you. It is very difficult to change the opinion of the general public, and even more so those with experience and evidence validating their opinion. Insulting those who disagree with you will get you no where.

This is a world where the proof is in the pudding. When a tradition of low quality is set into motion, it takes a lot to convince people otherwise. Small increases in QC are not enough, there must be something definitive showing "hey we changed" check out our new and vastly improved product.

It is one thing to move production overseas to cut costs, it is entirely another to do so and keep the cost to the consumer the same.

This topic has become a dead horse. Moderators, please close this thread if you see fit.

 

[craytab]

Excellent post, I'm in agreement here 100%.

My friend Poceh let me borrow his BT70, and it's a great knife, and I really wanted/want one. But every time I get a hundo in my knife-buying pocket, I just keep finding better things to spend it on.

Yup. My Recon 1 Spear point is a good contrast. CTS-XHP vs AUS8, Better Lock, 2.3 oz less, DLC (if one likes that), American made steel, and a reversible pocket clip. I got mine on sale for $85 from Knife Center. Normally they go for $100. On paper they aren't even close. How can a knife be better in hand when it can't even come close to surviving with the specs? This isn't even taking into account CRKT's bad reputation. Cold Steel has its own bad rep but it is not in the quality of their products. They are extremely high value, IMO of course.

When a tradition of low quality is set into motion, it takes a lot to convince people otherwise. Small increases in QC are not enough, there must be something definitive showing "hey we changed" check out our new and vastly improved product.

It is one thing to move production overseas to cut costs, it is entirely another to do so and keep the cost to the consumer the same.

Yes indeed. To compete with brands that have much better reputations you need to do more than supposedly improve your standards. If we can't get past your materials or price then it really doesn't matter if you have improved anything.

And I agree, this thread could keep going like this forever. We are done here.

 

[brancron]

I was the only one here able to speak with any specificity about knives I've actually owned produced within the last 5-years by CRKT. All the rest of you have done an admirable job speculating. This thread is definitely over.

 

[Quiet]

I was the only one here able to speak with any specificity about knives I've actually owned produced within the last 5-years by CRKT. All the rest of you have done an admirable job speculating. This thread is definitely over.

Speculating? LOL Ok, man. Listen, enjoy your too-expensive, indifferent-quality knives. I sincerely mean that, enjoy them. Some of us will enjoy other things.

 

[firefighterguy]

I don't really have a dog in the fight. My experience with CRKT is this; my wife bought me a wrinkle for my birthday. At that time is was the most expensive knife I owned by quite a bit. So my taste is knives was cheap ($25) until that point. The blade was good. Worst pocket clip ever. Ikbs was nice. I cut some cardboard with it and the liner lock got jammed to the opposite side.

After that I got a delica 4 and I was blown away. The rat 2 that I just got was cheaper than the CRKT and in another class above it.

That's just my one knife experience with crkt but it was really bad.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

+1 to #131. Pretty much sums it up for me. I don't know if I know what I'm talking about but I do have some principles when looking for knives and I'm trying to stick with them most of the time.
I buy their models (cheap or expensive) if I find something appealing in the design.
Usually those are models that are not very suitable for real work, so the steel and F&F doesn't really matter, BT-70 for instance.
Just as crytab, I don't find anything appealing or sensible in the design of most of their new models, probably about 90% of them... They are elements that I like, combined with elements that I will not use.
Probably they need to get a signature model and gravitate around it full time, instead of working with so many different knifemakers and trying to trim their designs so production won't cost much...

 

[craytab]

Probably they need to get a signature model and gravitate around it full time, instead of working with so many different knifemakers and trying to trim their designs so production won't cost much...

That is a very valid point.