Initial Impressions: Hinderer XM-18 Wharncliff 20CV Regrind by Josh @ REK....

I hope I'm not derailing the thread here. That Hinderer looks fantastic. Incredible work on the regrind.

I've been a fan of CPM-20CV for a while now. My top 3 favorite steels are 20CV, M390, and Elmax.

Nice to see 20CV getting some forum time.

I own a few Survive!Knives in 20CV (and M390) and knew that Guy had gotten it right when he switched over from M390. They make almost every version in 20CV except the large chopper GSO 10 IIRC(3V for obvious reasons).

When Brian Evans of EKT (Evans Knife and Tool - Forum Member) started the DART model thread, I commissioned a blank from him in 20CV and added my own custom scales. I have over a dozen neckers but his sees the most use probably 5 days of every week. That 20CV steel is incredible. I've used that DART necker and my Survive GSO 3.5 more than most other fixed blades I have and the edge retention is difficult to describe. I've yet to have a need to sharpen either one. Just phenomenal. NO, I'm not a fan boy and knives are TOOLS for me. The 20CV makes for a great tool in a knife.
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Doing a lot of work outside this weekend (it just has to be 100 Degrees Fahrenheit)

A lot of cleanup from storms that have come through the area. I have done the big stuff, but it's the small stuff that's always the hardest...
So, I climbed out of the tree's to do a little test on the 'toughness' of the edge...

I have a lot of Maple trees. Really hard wood that even my chainsaws don't have much love for.

I bashed the blade into a 3 inch piece until it just got too hard to go much further.
I use my knife a lot to clean up, or to fashion spears for my 3 young kids who just love anything I chop up for them with a point on it!
I don't always have a chainsaw/Bowsaw/fixed blade strapped to me, and depending on how far I am from my house, it's just faster to take care of a branch with my knife that's always in my pocket....



I then found a nasty knot, and sliced it down. Then, for good measure, I beat the blade into the heart of the knot a few times...why not!



I felt that considering how fresh and hard this piece of Maple was (I cut it down 20 minutes before these pictures) that this was enough.

Believe me when I say, I beat this knife into some very hard wood!
 
I actually took a long walk to the back of my lot, and nope, I didn't bring any big tools.....

Found some thinner branches that needed to be chopped, and the RHK did it with ease. No pics, no point really.

So, four hours working in the heat was enough for today!

Got my body temp back to normal, washed the maple off of the edge, and examined the edge for any damage.
Mostly looking to see if it:

Incurred any Folding. (It will not cut any thin paper)
Any Micro chips (The only way I can test this is to put direct light on it and see if the apex reflects it, and you can feel it when cutting PB, or any really thin paper)

The edge looked great (pics do no justice, but zero micro-chipping or foldind.
Here's my trusty PB cut test.
I made sure to cut from the tip to the back, and vice versa, using every part of the edge.







Right now I am loving 20CV.
I might just put my stones and strop up for sale one the exchange!!

Seriously though, wonderful work by Josh to give me a Geometry that can slice, however, still have enough behind the edge to maintain stability.

More updates to come.....really interested in when I will NEED to strop this steel!
 
Hale Storm said:
I hope I'm not derailing the thread here. That Hinderer looks fantastic. Incredible work on the regrind.

I've been a fan of CPM-20CV for a while now. My top 3 favorite steels are 20CV, M390, and Elmax.

Nice to see 20CV getting some forum time.

I own a few Survive!Knives in 20CV (and M390) and knew that Guy had gotten it right when he switched over from M390. They make almost every version in 20CV except the large chopper GSO 10 IIRC(3V for obvious reasons).

When Brian Evans of EKT (Evans Knife and Tool - Forum Member) started the DART model thread, I commissioned a blank from him in 20CV and added my own custom scales. I have over a dozen neckers but his sees the most use probably 5 days of every week. That 20CV steel is incredible. I've used that DART necker and my Survive GSO 3.5 more than most other fixed blades I have and the edge retention is difficult to describe. I've yet to have a need to sharpen either one. Just phenomenal. NO, I'm not a fan boy and knives are TOOLS for me. The 20CV makes for a great tool in a knife.
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I remember talking to Brian in a thread about blade steel (hope I have the right guy!) and I was really into 3V.
He was very adamant about the qualities of 20CV in terms of superior edge retention, but still maintaining a lot of toughness and durability.

So far, he was 100% correct.
 
Bahahaha!!

I see you down there bro....!!!

This is a steel for you man. I have no doubt about that anymore....
 
JR88FAN said:
Doing a lot of work outside this weekend (it just has to be 100 Degrees Fahrenheit)

A lot of cleanup from storms that have come through the area. I have done the big stuff, but it's the small stuff that's always the hardest...
So, I climbed out of the tree's to do a little test on the 'toughness' of the edge...

I have a lot of Maple trees. Really hard wood that even my chainsaws don't have much love for.

I bashed the blade into a 3 inch piece until it just got too hard to go much further.
I use my knife a lot to clean up, or to fashion spears for my 3 young kids who just love anything I chop up for them with a point on it!
I don't always have a chainsaw/Bowsaw/fixed blade strapped to me, and depending on how far I am from my house, it's just faster to take care of a branch with my knife that's always in my pocket....



I then found a nasty knot, and sliced it down. Then, for good measure, I beat the blade into the heart of the knot a few times...why not!



I felt that considering how fresh and hard this piece of Maple was (I cut it down 20 minutes before these pictures) that this was enough.

Believe me when I say, I beat this knife into some very hard wood!
Click to expand...


Red isn't one of my favorite color's, however, that red scale on your, RHK, look's awesome, Alex!

Any chance that you could possibly fashion me, one of those spear's, & ship it out West, to Idaho? ;)

I'm guessing, that you're a pretty amazing/fun father to your 3 kid's. :thumbup:
 
I find this pretty interesting, for the reason that I sharpened my s90v native at 18DPS also, and I would assume it is slightly thicker behind the edge than your knife, and carving into a 2x4 damaged the edge.
 
Alex,

When you cut pb paper are you stabbing it with the tip and cutting down towards the edge of the paper?

Also, when did it lose the arm hair shaving sharpness? How did the arm hair sharpness compare to other steels you have tried? I am wondering because curious as to whether it holds a working edge for longer or a finer edge for a while.
 
KELAMA said:
Red isn't one of my favorite color's, however, that red scale on your, RHK, look's awesome, Alex!

Any chance that you could possibly fashion me, one of those spear's, & ship it out West, to Idaho? ;)

I'm guessing, that you're a pretty amazing/fun father to your 3 kid's. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

It's not red bro, it's orange!

Maybe it's the lighting?! Maybe it's you........!!

My kids are great man, keep me on my toes for sure!!
 
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razor-edge-knives said:
Alex,

When you cut pb paper are you stabbing it with the tip and cutting down towards the edge of the paper?

Also, when did it lose the arm hair shaving sharpness? How did the arm hair sharpness compare to other steels you have tried? I am wondering because curious as to whether it holds a working edge for longer or a finer edge for a while.
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Hey man!

Thanks for this, so far so good!

I cut the PB paper in many ways....

Stab it and then go from top to bottom with the entire edge.
Push cut (the edge is not doing that anymore)

Mostly I start at the edge of the PB paper with the back of the blade (closest to the pivot) and cut through to the tip.

As for hair shaving, I don't know, I don't do that as a test, so I don't have any before-during-after tests on that.
Not really interested in that as a 'test' I like the PB test, as that is sharp enough, and I can 'feel' how the edge is when I cut through something that thin...

I would say that it's better than a working edge still.
For me, a 'working edge' was something that 3V got to real fast. (And held for a while)
It would still slice PB paper after going through cardboard (nowhere near this much cardboard) but the slices where no longer smooth, had a lot of drag, and it would tear it unless everything lined up perfectly...and even then it wasn't very clean.
 
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Glad to see its still holding up. I think it's time to make room for some new cpm20cv!
 
Gizler00 said:
Glad to see its still holding up. I think it's time to make room for some new cpm20cv!
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Like I said Mark, this is a steel that you would really enjoy, knowing how you use your knives!!

I am not going to torture test this blade to make it chip. It's just going to mean work for me on the stones!!

We'll see when I hit some concrete by accident, but I can safely say at this point, that as a hard use EDC steel, this is exceptional. The edge retention is really crazy...I am curious as to what HRC Hinderer runs this at?!

I am going to just keep using it to do the things I normally do, and update those findings, good or bad....
 
Just an FYI for anyone that may find this info useful.....I looked up the HRC on CPM 20CV for the fun of it....

CPM recommends a range between 56-59RC

Survive! Knives who love and use this steel in their fixed blades with great results run it at 58-59RC

Hinderer Runs it at 59-60RC
 
I seriously cannot wait to get mine in the mail now! I am so glad I was able to secure one with this particular blade style. We will have to do a test off of some sorts. Seeing what all we can throw at these things and see what they will take.
 
JR88FAN said:
Hey man!

Thanks for this, so far so good!

I cut the PB paper in many ways....

Stab it and then go from top to bottom with the entire edge.
Push cut (the edge is not doing that anymore)

Mostly I start at the edge of the PB paper with the back of the blade (closest to the pivot) and cut through to the tip.

As for hair shaving, I don't know, I don't do that as a test, so I don't have any before-during-after tests on that.
Not really interested in that as a 'test' I like the PB test, as that is sharp enough, and I can 'feel' how the edge is when I cut through something that thin...

I would say that it's better than a working edge still.
For me, a 'working edge' was something that 3V got to real fast. (And held for a while)
It would still slice PB paper after going through cardboard (nowhere near this much cardboard) but the slices where no longer smooth, had a lot of drag, and it would tear it unless everything lined up perfectly...and even then it wasn't very clean.
Click to expand...

Thanks for specifying! Good stuff and that helps clarify! A little tip I found... you probably know this, but when cutting through thick stuff like cardboard, instead of cutting perpendicular into the cardboard, try moving the handle over to the side so you are cutting on a 45* angle - makes it a TON easier ;)

Bludgeon said:
Nice pics and grind on your XM. I'd love to shred a couple sheets of cardboard with that modded blade. I've liked every grind I've seen from RE, looking forward to having some work done on a blade of mine in near future.
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Gizler00 said:
I would be very interested in this! I really want to get my hands on this knife above that alex has^^. Then send it to you for the same treatment. It now looks to be the superior EDC workhorse.

Cant wait to see how the steel holds up. I have never had any first hand experience with it.


Amazing job as always Josh.
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Got the passaround up and running fyi
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Thanks for specifying! Good stuff and that helps clarify! A little tip I found... you probably know this, but when cutting through thick stuff like cardboard, instead of cutting perpendicular into the cardboard, try moving the handle over to the side so you are cutting on a 45* angle - makes it a TON easier ;)

^ that is a true insult man...way below the belt....

I am going to forget about it and move on!!
Click to expand...
 
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Out comes the Strop.....

I want to be clear about this to be fair.
The edge was still cutting PB paper extremely well. More then 'good enough'

The only thing it wouldn't do was push cut the PB paper.

I found a bit of time, and really, I wanted to see how this steel reacted to being stropped.

First up, I did 10 strokes on each side (Green compound) and this is some really fun steel.
Back to push cutting PB paper, and very delicate clean slices...



Let's go a bit further...6 more strokes per side.....

Starting to knurl PB paper (Look at my finger) and ultra fine/clean slices. I am back to fine edge territory in under a minute.



I am starting to wonder if I am going to find something bad to say about this steel.....
 
Very nice results. I love being able to strip a blade to that type of sharpness.

You are not making this easy on me. This thing needs to get here!
 
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