Initial Impressions of My New 20" Kobra and 18" AK

[Don Nelson]

First the 18" Ang Khola: My God! This is a hand and a half sword compressed down into a package the size of a large knife. It's physical presence combined with its heft is absolutely intimidating.

I might be wrong - this isn't a hand-and-a-half sword compressed down into a knife-sized package, it is a battle axe compressed down into a knife-sized package.

I don't quite know what to make of it really. Can't imagine what I'd use it for. But I do know one thing though:

It makes me grin like a chimp every time I heft it (HUGE GRIN).

The 18" Kobra: Well, let's see. How can I put this.....

Don't know how, so I'll just blurt it out -- I don't really like it. It feels like it has all the worst handling characteristics of my 18" Sirupati, and exaggerates them. Maybe it's the rather rakishly angled blade that makes the balance seem so "off" for me.

The piece is very nicely rendered with a terrific profile, but I have to definitely say this is a case of the blade and the blade wielder not being a good match.

However, my daughter on the other hand fell instantly in love with it. She says it's the best feeling Khuk of the eight we have.

She didn't like my Chitlangi for instance because she said it felt too "bouncy" in her hand, while the Kobra had a more "positive heft". Of course, I evaluate my Chit as one of two Khuks that are in a tie for 2nd Most Favorite. So, I guess we have a perfect example of differences in preferences.

However, even though the 20" Kobra is not my cup of tea, I can see very easily why it would be a strong favorite of many. Cool blade. Definitely.

Don

 

[Zal]

That's odd. My 18" AK is quick in the hand.

. . . then again, it's only quick once I get it moving in one direction and inertia doesn't want it to stop going that way.

Trust me, mate. The 18" AK is a hoss that just begs "Beat me" and laughs when you try. I'm even getting to the point where I can throw it with reasonable chances of having it stick into a target.

Whee. You might wonder what to do with it now, but go attack some wood. *then* you can smile.

 

[hoghead]

Good report Don.
Those 18" AKs can vary a quite a bit as some will be alot heavier than others. Nonetheless, it seems to be a good compromise size in the AK style. Heavier than the 15", but not quite as cumbersome as the 20". Able to (and have) felled trees easily with mine. Don't get tired as quick with the 18" as with a heavier khuk. Difference a pound makes. If I had to have just one, an 18"AK would probably suffice quite well.
Generally agree with your assesment of the Kobra. I don't pratice martial arts and find it kind of light for use as other than a weapon. Guess I never tryed to trim bushes with it or use it in the kitchen so haven't really tryed alot of options either. Guess the thin handle could be a benefit for small hands. My daughter likes ours and mamav has one of her own (18") but my daughter likes the Gelbus better. So do I. Chitlangis are up there too!

 

[ddean]

Originally posted by Don Nelson .......First the 18" Ang Khola: .....Can't imagine what I'd use it for. But ......It makes me grin like a chimp every time I heft it (HUGE GRIN).

The Kobra: ........ my daughter .....fell instantly in love with it. She says it's the best feeling Khuk of the eight we have.

8 khuks in how many days?
HIKV strikes again.

--------------
So where's her BAS now?

Is the Kobra lighter or heavier version?
(Call 1 oz / inch length standard (lighter) for a Kobra.)

I have a 25" Kobra on the heavy side; 38 oz.

--------------
I think the first khuk everyone should get is the 18" Ang Khola at 28-oz (both of mine).
Maybe call it the center of the spectrum of khuks.
From that perspective you can compare / branch out to all the others.

---------------
Now you need to compare your BAS to the WWII.

---------------
BTW.

Get a few 2x4s set up, then exercise the blades.
Whole new perspective to dry handling.

Some blades have a sweet spot (center of percussion)
that falls where it instantly feels good to chop.
Others you have to find and adjust to.

I find I like to slice with the tip on "softer" materials:
cardboard, hard sheet plastic, thinner sheet metal

Chopping for hard material: wood

Chopping thin branches or woody weeds seems a sort of combination.

---------------
What about the NSHR for khuks?

 

[Bobwhite]

For that AK, here is what you do with it. Find a woodpile, a stand of dead wood or a thicket that needs clearing and whack away. You will then appreciate it as a tool, the weapon aspect is secondary on a blade like that.

 

[Mark Nelson]

Great report. I think that these type of reports are what makes this forum a little different from some of the other Makers & Manufacturers Forums. I say this because some don't get alot of activity or the people are blindly fanatic for the makers product. Don't misunderstand I think most here are crazed for the H.I. products but when you come on and say that the "20" Kobra is not my cup of tea" no one tries to come back and decry you as a fool or worse. I have had a 18" Kobra for a few days. Mine I like, but I could see where it could be a real hit or miss item for alot of people. I have had a couple of AKs for a few weeks and everyone that I has had one in there hand has gotten that "oh my" look on there faces. They are different animal all together.

 

[Bill Martino]

It is a good report and we get our share like it. It supports my theory that you need to get a khukuri that fits your particular hand. And I can tell you from experience that not all hands are the same and what is one man's drink is another man's poison. It's why the trade option is always open and my feelings are never hurt when folks take advantage of it.

I'm not one to try to sell a 12 inch Sirupati to a man who has special ordered a 25 inch AK with 7/8" thick spine.

 

[Red]

And that's what keeps us coming back, Uncle Bill.

 

[Don Nelson]

Hey, Dean;

You wrote, "8 khuks in how many days?
HIKV strikes again."

Me: Yeah, kinda looks like it. Not sure how many days its been, but couldn't have been much over a couple weeks I figure. I LOVE these things.

You: "So where's her BAS now?"

Me: In the "armory" alongside the others. She still likes that one a LOT. And I mean a WHOLE LOT.

You: "Is the Kobra lighter or heavier version?
(Call 1 oz / inch length standard (lighter) for a Kobra.)"

Me: I am actually very surprised to see that it weighs exactly 20-oz, just like my 15" BAS, 18" Gelbu and 18" Sirupati. So what are the odds of four out of eight Khuks weighing the same? Maybe I ought to buy a Lotto ticket (smile).

You: "I have a 25" Kobra on the heavy side; 38 oz."

Me: Man that is heavy. My 18" AK weighs right at 32-oz. I don't know why I find that so heavy when I tend to prefer 44-48 ounce swords.

You: "I think the first khuk everyone should get is the 18" Ang Khola at 28-oz (both of mine).
Maybe call it the center of the spectrum of khuks.
From that perspective you can compare / branch out to all the others."

Me: I dunno. 28-oz seems a tad heavyish to me, yet I feel kinda silly saying that considering my preference for sword weights.

You: "Now you need to compare your BAS to the WWII."

Me: You sly devil you. Lemme guess, you're making a slight cut off of all these Khuks I buy from Uncle Bill. You knew I'd be weak and have no self-control.

You: "BTW. Get a few 2x4s set up, then exercise the blades. Whole new perspective to dry handling. Some blades have a sweet spot (center of percussion) that falls where it instantly feels good to chop. Others you have to find and adjust to. I find I like to slice with the tip on "softer" materials: cardboard, hard sheet plastic, thinner sheet metal"

"Chopping for hard material: wood"

"Chopping thin branches or woody weeds seems a sort of combination."

Me: I'm hoping to do some cutting this weekend. Looking forward to it.

You: "What about the NSHR for khuks?"

Me: Funny you should mention that as I've been doing a lot of thinking about that recently. I've decided that I needed to tweak my measurement points a bit.

For example, on both swords and Khuks, I think the blade length variable needs to be measured from the same spot as the PoB, ie, where the handle meets the back of the cross.

The way I did it before, using the blade length measurement from the front of the cross, did not factor in the additional length added by the depth of the cross.

Ditto with Khuks. I seem to have misplaced that post you did showing where you measured the PoB from, but I believe it was where the rear of the brass thingy (the bolster?) meets the handle proper.

I'm thinking this is also the point at which the blade should be measured from.

For example, the little 15" Suri's bolster measures 1.25" in depth. In my first and second iterations of the formula, I would have measured the blade length from where the blade meets the bolster, yet my hand tends to sit behind the bolster, and this would then mean that my measurements did not take into account the additional leverage that additional 1.25" would add into the muscle needed to change the Khuk's attitude, and on a relatively short bladed tool like a 15" Khuk that 1.25" was a substantial portion of the amount of steel that is hanging out there in space waiting to be acted on.

By the way, I'ev gotten real attached to this little 15" Suri. It is real sweet. Boggles my mind that my kid didn't just fall head over heels for it (shrug).

Of course, I'm sure she's puzzled over why that 20" Kobra just seems to feel all wrong for me. I tried it again a little while ago. Very nice blade, very nice indeed, but it's balance seems as wrong for me as my Gelbu seems right. I know there is probably a difference in PoB's, but also the handle plays a major role. I prefer rather "full-figured" handles, and blades with more slender grips just don't feel as positive to me. The narrower gripped blades feel like they're trying to slip around inside my hands or something.

Anyway, I'm going to do some number crunching and will provide some NSH Ratings for my Khuks using the Mk III Model of the formula.

Don

 

[Don Nelson]

Originally posted by Bill Martino
It is a good report and we get our share like it. It supports my theory that you need to get a khukuri that fits your particular hand. And I can tell you from experience that not all hands are the same and what is one man's drink is another man's poison. It's why the trade option is always open and my feelings are never hurt when folks take advantage of it.

I'm not one to try to sell a 12 inch Sirupati to a man who has special ordered a 25 inch AK with 7/8" thick spine.

Uncle Bill and Feth;

You gents are right on the nose.

I certainly do appreciate a place where a fellow can say that a certain blade doesn't fit him, while there are ardent fans of that same blade as members, and not be attacked for it.

I always figured that a person reading my comments is done no good service if every post I write is a "I never met a Khuk I didn't like" post. That kind of sycophantry only creates unrealistic expectations in some folks' minds and then you have some very disappointed customers when - much to their surprise - and disappointment - the Khuk that got such rave reviews doesn't work for them.

And like Bill said about drinks and poisons is spot on. I've now been over two years heavily into long sharp pointy things, and many of them cost the price of several of these wonderful Khukuris. An enthusiast surely does no one a favor when profering insincere raves about items costing at least half a thousand, and often times into four figures.

My favorite handgun of all time is the 1911A1 model pistol. This is a handgun that has a segment of the handgun community that is so zealous that to merely mention that the gun is not pure divine perfection from the box merits a stoning or burning at the stake.

I can appreciate a fan as much as anyone, but I never understood a level of fandom that refused to accept the concept that the given item may not be perfect, or may not be a perfect fit for everyone.

The first time I saw the Khuks on Himalayan-Imports.Com I KNEW I was looking at some extremely well-designed tools/weapons. Most of them just simply "looked right", much the way a fine handgun or sword, just, "looks right".

The moment I wrapped my hand around that mysteriously named Kami !'s BAS I was instantly struck with what a superbly crafted implement I was holding.

It fit me like a part of me, and I can't describe the sense of "completeness" that comes over me when I heft it, when I test its weight and balance.

I knew I was on to something pretty darned special here at HI. And I have to say that out of eight Khuks I've held in my hands, that only one feeling like a not-good fit is a remarkable success rate.

And the beauty of it is, the fact it doesn't fit my neuro-musculo-skeletal configuration does not take away at all from its outstanding craftsmanship. I am just so tickled that the moment my daughter hefted it I saw that sparkle in her eye and that frown of studying concentration break into a huge smile, that my sense of this Khuk's excellent design and craftsmanship was validated.

Of the six Khuks that are now officially "mine"....

15" BAS, horn
18" Chit, horn
18" Gelbu, horn
15" Siru, horn
18" Siru, wood
18" AK, horn

....the first three listed almost literally "clicked" into place the first time I held them, and the 15" Siru took only a decent night's sleep to energize my affections.

The 18" Siru took a few days mainly because I had evidently inflicted a slight sprain in my wrist at work so wasn't able to handle much of a blade with a bit of a tip heavy balance. Now that I don't experience pain when I do a rapid change of direction with it, I really love the way this feels. Very "positive" in its motion - no wobbliness or over-committment.

The 18" AK is a true oddity. Like I said earlier, I can't help but get this silly smile on my face every time I heft it. For some reason it makes me want to wade into a mob of Orcs or Uruk-Hai and save Middle Earth (or die trying) -- HUGE GRIN!

Of the two Khuks I've given my daughter, a 15" BAS (that I like quite a bit), and the 20" Kobra, only the Kobra makes me feel like I'm fighting it a bit to make it do what I want. And yet, this one was a huge hit with my young one.

Given this kind of track record, it's real hard to keep the HIKV fever in check.

Don

 

[ddean]

Originally posted by Don Nelson
My 18" AK weighs right at 32-oz. I don't know why I find that so heavy when I tend to prefer 44-48 ounce swords.

I think my 18" AKs are a little lighter than average, I prefer my 28-oz.

Khuks a lot smaller/shorter than swords; More weight for the length.

You: "I think the first khuk everyone should get is the 18" Ang Khola at 28-oz
Me: I dunno. 28-oz seems a tad heavyish to me,

Yes it does.
My alternative would be to suggest the 15" AK.
But then 15" is too short to serve the purpose in my thinking.
Maybe a 17" M43 would be better, but I haven't handled the HI M43.
Mil issue M43s are very nice; I have one.
But the HI version is heavier.

You: "Now you need to compare your BAS to the WWII."
Me: You sly devil you.

Actually I've changed my mind.
The previous mil issue was the M43 & that one is much prettier to me.
Very sleek profile. Sorta shark-like.

You: "What about the NSHR for khuks?"
Me: For example, on both swords and Khuks, I think the blade length variable needs to be measured from the same spot as the PoB, ie, where the handle meets the back of the cross.

Uh-oh..........
You know, for all the pondering I've done re the NSHR,
I just realize I've been using OAL rather than blade length.
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
Makes sense.

On the other hand.
The hand is still moving the mass of the blade (excuse me, sword) on the pommel side.
It's part of the pendulum/lever.
I'd been looking at info on this before I saw your NSHR.
That's where my confusion came about.
I've been thinking OAL for some time.
Google search "physical pendulum" for related info.
Related to Sir Richard Burton's writings RE measuring
pendulum aspect of sword to locate COP.
Example of material:
"NOTE: These two conjugate centers of oscillation ( and ) exist of course for any rigid physical pendulum, e.g._a baseball bat:
Let one center of oscillation be where the batter grasps the bat. The conjugate center of oscillation is then called the center of percussion because if the ball hits the bat at this point, the blow rotates the bat about the other center of oscillation, (i.e._the batter's hands) and so the bat transmits no ``sting" to the hands. However, if the ball hits very far from the center of percussion, the hands receive much of the blow and an unpleasant ``sting'' can result. "

The paragraph above does not address CONTROL forces applied to the pendulum,
But the math is related.
http://badger.physics.wisc.edu/lab/manual/node16.html
is the page and there's more there of interest.

where the rear of the brass thingy (the bolster?) meets the handle proper.
I'm thinking this is also the point at which the blade should be measured from.
my measurements did not take into account the additional leverage that additional 1.25" would add into the muscle needed to change the Khuk's attitude, ....a substantial portion

Makes sense for both length measures.
But as I'm thinking and writing I'm leaning more to using the SqRt of OAL.
I don't have the math to demonstrate it.
But it feels right.

I still think the most accurate point to measure is actually
ON the handle behind the point we're discussing above.
It is not the front of the index finger where the control force is applied.
I think 1-2 inches behind this point would be more accurate.
When you chop, -feel- which finger is controlling the force.

20" Kobra just seems to feel all wrong for me. ..... balance seems as wrong for me as my Gelbu seems right. I know there is probably a difference in PoB's, but also the handle plays a major role. I prefer rather "full-figured" handles,

See what you think after hitting something with each.
I bet you adjust/fine-tune your thinking on some of the blades.
Try gloves on thinner handles.
Or wrap with athletic tape or something.
How does that affect the 'feel' of the whole khuk?

Anyway, I'm going to do some number crunching and will provide some NSH Ratings for my Khuks using the Mk III Model of the formula.

Great. Looking forward.

 

[Don Nelson]

Hi, Dean;

You wrote, "My alternative would be to suggest the 15" AK. But then 15" is too short to serve the purpose in my thinking. Maybe a 17" M43 would be better, but I haven't handled the HI M43."

Me: I might be inclined to agree. I think for an all-purpose Khuk, or one designed for serious cutting, that 15" is the minimum overall length.

You: "The previous mil issue was the M43 & that one is much prettier to me.
Very sleek profile. Sorta shark-like."

Me: The shark-like profiles of many of my Khuks struck me just the other day. I find that soooo cool.

You: "Uh-oh..........
You know, for all the pondering I've done re the NSHR, I just realize I've been using OAL rather than blade length.
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
[Thud self on head numerous times.]
Makes sense."

Me: Not a problem. Here, have some aspirin (grin).

You: "On the other hand. The hand is still moving the mass of the blade (excuse me, sword) on the pommel side. It's part of the pendulum/lever."

Me: That's a valid point really, and one that I had not considered [Thud self on head numerous times.]. Maybe I should look at that.

You: "I'd been looking at info on this before I saw your NSHR."

Me: Good. I'm glad to meet someone else who's interested in quantifying the nearly unquantifiable. I've enjoyed the exchange.

You: "Makes sense for both length measures.
But as I'm thinking and writing I'm leaning more to using the SqRt of OAL. I don't have the math to demonstrate it. But it feels right."

Me: I agree. The "feels right" criteria is very powerful and should not be discounted merely because we can't "prove" it. I spent hours testing various swords of various blade lengths, weights and balance points and it slowly settled in that although blade length (or OAL) did make a difference in how two swords of similar weight and balance felt, this difference did not seem to be as linear as the relationship of PoB and weight. This prompted me to reduce the 'weight' of the blade length component by using the square root of it.

It seems that many things in nature use a square root manipulation of raw values, so I've always kept the square root manipulation as an option in my mathematical models.

You: "I still think the most accurate point to measure is actually ON the handle behind the point we're discussing above."

Me: Possibly. My only problem with it is that my goal with the NSHR is to be able to generate a single number from a number of objective, clearly identifiable measurement points - meaurement points that can be unequivocally located, even from mere photographs.

I'm reluctant to adopt measurement points that are "user specific", if you know what I mean, because it is highly likely that any two or ten Khuk users will grasp their Khuks in any of two or ten slightly different ways. And of course, the same user will alter their grasp depending on the target too I'd imagine.

By using a clearly identifiable measurement point, this yields a set of unequivocal values. And of course, they might mean different things to each user, and that is fine.

For example, a sword or Khuk an NSHR of 9.8 might be a very "positive" feeling implement for one person, while for another it might just simply be unwieldy.

But the point is, by the measurements being taken from a clearly identifiable point, the would-be user than can have a higher degree of confidence in the NSHR as a way of communicating to him or her how that implement might handle for them.

But the second point is, is that although we can discuss and might even disagree perhaps, there is no compelling reason for either of us to try to persuade the other to change or adopt the measurement points or values of the other. That's the beauty of numbers, they don't belong to anyone (grin).

You: "See what you think after hitting something with each. I bet you adjust/fine-tune your thinking on some of the blades."

Me: No doubt about that. Thanks for the discussion. Am enjoying it a lot.

Don

 

[Loki]

Don:

I'm surprised it took you this long to discover the Khuks! These are fun blades that can actually do some serious work (my favorite palm frond and old Xmas tree wacking tool). Yup, the Khuks look cool too.

 

[ddean]

Originally posted by Don Nelson
It seems that many things in nature use a square root manipulation of raw values, so I've always kept the square root manipulation as an option in my mathematical models.

You: "I still think the most accurate point to measure is actually ON the handle behind the point we're discussing above."
Me: Possibly. ..... clearly identifiable measurement points - meaurement points that can be unequivocally located, even from mere photographs.
I'm reluctant to adopt measurement points that are "user specific",

although we can discuss and might even disagree perhaps, there is no compelling reason for either of us to try to persuade the other .....the beauty of numbers, they don't belong to anyone (grin).

!!! Nature SqRt ??? what examples???

unequivocal -- yes!
I was thinking like [measure" - 0.5"] or some 'standard'
that made the calc a -little- more precise,
but didn't vary between users.

It's great to have a Standard to talk about.
I may come up with my own variant,
but I'd rather talk the same numbers as everyone else.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Don Nelson]

Originally posted by Loki
Don:

I'm surprised it took you this long to discover the Khuks! These are fun blades that can actually do some serious work (my favorite palm frond and old Xmas tree wacking tool). Yup, the Khuks look cool too.

I've known "of" Khuks for a long while, but, their angled blade and rather spatulated shape that I was exposed to (WWII and Korean War era) didn't appeal to me from an asthetic standpoint, so I never really gave them much of a study.

I'm very glad that I have now though.

Don

 

[Don Nelson]

Originally posted by ddean
!!! Nature SqRt ??? what examples???

unequivocal -- yes!
I was thinking like [measure" - 0.5"] or some 'standard'
that made the calc a -little- more precise,
but didn't vary between users.

It's great to have a Standard to talk about.
I may come up with my own variant,
but I'd rather talk the same numbers as everyone else.

Thanks for the discussion.

Thanks to this discussion with you, I modified the NSH Formula again today. We're now on the Mark 4 model (grin).

Here is the latest variant:

Sqr Rt (Overall Len, in inches) x weight in oz x Point of Balance in inches from where handle meets the back of the guard / 100.

This tends to give a larger range of numbers. I chose the constant 100 in the denominator because it "seems" to give me a "tell at a glance" readout on swords/large knives.

With this particular formula, the closer you get to the Rating value of 20, the more that two hands are really necessary to employ the weapon/implement.

For example, my A&A 12th Century Sword is a real battle sword. It weighs 56-oz, has an overall length of 43" and a PoB from the back of the guard of some 6.9". There is almost no way to use this sword with one hand. You can get a mighty swing going, but forget any changes of direction or slowing it down until and unless it strikes something.

It's Mk 4 NSHR would be 25.2 [Sq Rt of 43.0 x 56 x 6.9 / 100].

And this "feels" about right.

My Angus Trim At1421 Type XIII is another pure war sword, but is at least somewhat maneuverable with one hand. I love this beast by the way (grin). It's Mk 4 NSHR is 18.8 [Sq Rt of 40.75 x 47 x 6.25 / 100]. Note that it's value is very close to 20, meaning you really need two hands on it to get any kind of response other than a straight-on medium-powered blow.

My A&A Black Prince Type XV is as nimble as a humming bird but strikes like a falcon. It has an NSHR of only 8.3. As you can see, if values near 20 mean you need two hands, values of less than 10 mean that the piece is easily used with one hand, and this one is, despite its 3.5-lb weight -- all due to its very close point of balance [Sq Rt of 43.75 x 56 x 2.25 / 100].

Your idea of taking the measurement 0.5" back from where the handle meets the bolster seems reasonable with Khuks. Let's go with that. I'll modify my formula to take that into account for Khukuris.

I'm grinding through my Khuks now, taking measurements and entering them into a data base. I'll let you know what I come up with a bit later.

Thanks again.

Don

 

[ddean]

Originally posted by Don Nelson
Your idea of taking the measurement 0.5" back from where the handle meets the bolster seems reasonable with Khuks. Let's go with that.

At first I was going to say that it would seem better to keep the same formula for all blades.

Then I swayed to consider that khuks are shorter so need the extra precision.

Then I thought that khuks vary in length more extremely than 'swords'.
To the extent that some should be considered swords of a khuk persuasion.

Now I don't know what I think.

Rev 4 (all " to back of guard/bolster):

My Bureti khuk: SqRt16" x10.8oz x3.25"/100 = 1.4

My new AK: SqRt18" x29.8oz x3.75"/100 = 4.7

My new Chinese dao: SqRt34" x 28.5-oz x 8" / 100 = 13.3

AK vs Dao:
I think the numbers feel about right re 'point control',
Or even moving the sword 'as a static unit' from one location to another.

I need to spend more time feeling the motions.
There's something about the way the sword rotates around
the balance point when maneuvering it.

But my swordsmanship is minimal at best.
You've handled & -trained- with more examples & have a
better sense of which movements are important.

 

[Don Nelson]

Gettin' way past my bedtime so will just offer up a couple thoughts.

In terms of maneuvering sword-like objects, I run through the following "tests":

1. How rapidly the sword accelerates from a dead stop in the eight cardinal directions.

2. How rapidly the sword stops once its been accelerated, again, in each of the cardinal directions.

3. How easily the sword accelerates, then suddenly reverses direction, or changes direction. Think in terms of a multiple rapid strikes delivered in succession, and of "feints" delivered to one part of the body and then change the direction of attack.

Note that the tests in #3 above will play hell with a sprained or arthritic wrist or hands when using pieces that have heavy weights and/or far Points of Balance.

For Khuks, it makes sense to take the measurement from 0.5" further back from where handle meets bolster. At least with me my hands tend to sit further back on the hilt than how people traditionally hold swords.

Again, no group of numbers can perfectly capture these very subjective feels, but if we can help nudge the figures over to be a little more accurate without it being so piece-specific it's unusable, then I figure, why not?

Using the Mk 4 version of the formula, and measuring from .5" further back from the handle-bolster line, I get the following:

18" Ang Khola [sq rt 18.5" x 32-oz x 4.63" / 100] = 6.4.

15" BAS [sq rt 15.63" x 20-oz x 3.88" / 100] = 3.1.

18" Chit [sq rt 18.13" x 18-oz x 4.0" / 100] = 3.1.

This was a very interesting coincidence here. I kept comparing my BAS and Chitlangi and, by gosh, they really do feel very, very similar in hand, especially since they both have horn handles of similar thickness.

18" Gelbu [sq rt 18.25" x 20-oz x 4.06" / 100] = 3.5.

This was another comparison that worked better than I'd expected. My Gelbu is rather light, yet there is quite noticeable difference in heft between this one and the two above.

20" Kobra [sq rt 20.38" x 20-oz x 5.44" / 100] = 4.9.

This Kobra felt SO MUCH more sluggish in my hands than the Gelbu. Recall my comments on it earlier in the week, and now we can see that the agility numbers do support my subjective "heft assessments".

15" Sirupati [sq rt 15.5" x 15-oz x 3.63" / 100] = 2.1.

Yep. This works pretty good. My 15" Siru moves like lightning.

18" Sirupati [sq rt 18.38" x 20-oz x 4.38" / 100] = 3.8.

This one has a slightly more "positive" or tip-heavy feel than my beloved Gelbu, and as we see, its agility rating for this one is 3.8, versus the Gelbu's 3.5.

All in all, at this moment I am fairly satisfied with how this predictive/descriptive model works.

Don

[Edit - addition]

PS: Dean, one of the things I want this formula to do is work with as many types of weapons/implements as possible. My daughter and I just spent the last several minutes working out with my A&A Black Prince sword, and my 2-lb AK. We both concluded that the A&A Black Prince felt noticeable more agile, more easily accelerated and more easy to decelerate and change direction than my 18" AK. The BP's NSHR is 8.3, while the 18" 2-lb AK's is 6.4.

Clearly there is a problem here.

I've been considering for a long while that the PoB factor has not been given enough weight. Or maybe the weight factor has too much weight.

My guts tell me that a 2-lb object is twice as hard to accelerate and decelerate than a 1-lb object. So I am reluctant to use the square root of the weight as I did with the overall length.

But I am also reluctant to to use the square of the Point of Balance. Maybe instead of raising the PoB factor to the 2nd power, maybe raise it instead to the 1.5 power.

I'm too pooped to come up with a solution at the moment. I'll ponder it when I'm better rested. But in any event, it is clear that my current Mk 4 version still isn't close enough.

 

[Rusty]

Whatever tickles your fancy.

Just don't forget the 16.5 WW2. A statistically abnormal number of people seem to find it magic.

 

[ddean]

Originally posted by Don Nelson .....I'm too pooped to come up with a solution at the moment. I'll ponder it when I'm better rested. But in any event, it is clear that my current Mk 4 version still isn't close enough.

Mmmmmmmmm......
I'm playing with numbers too.
The dao and the AK I mentioned above don't feel like the
numbers should be so far apart.
instead of 4 & 13, I think something like 5 & 8 would be better.
Or on a scale of 1-100, something like 30 & 50.
The dao is pretty maneuverable.