Initial Impressions of My New 20" Kobra and 18" AK

Dean;

Finally got a decent night's sleep last night - well, except for the earthquake that woke me up at 11:30PM.

Anyhoo, I spent some time hefting and moving my A&A Black Prince and my 18" AK about. I was wrong in my earlier assertion that the Black Prince Sword was more agile. The AK does feel a bit more spritely in hand.

I've got some half a dozen agility models running in a spreadsheet right now. I'll revisit them later this week, but I think we are real close to something here. More and more I'm thinking that (Sq Rt of OAL x Wt x PoB) / some constant, is the way to go.

Gotta run now. TTYL.

Don
 
Don, wait about a year, or at least a few months, and then try out all the blades that dont feel right. Its amazing how things that dont feel right when you get them, suddenly feel perfect after being set aside for a few months. Had this one barong, that when I got it, I just was disgusted with it. It didnt feel right at all, and there was something about it that just bugged me. It was so bad that I was contemplating selling it. Well, 1 year later, I decide to give it a good play, and as if by magic, the sword just fit right. No longer did it seem awkward and un-wieldy, but suddenly it was graceful and agile. Then again, maybe Im just crazy.:D :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Oh, heck! Instead of getting myself all convoluted tryng to explain something I don't understand anyway, I'm gonna just fondle the khuks I've got on hand.

Ahhhh! :D :D :D
 
Oh, heck! Instead of getting myself all convoluted tryng to explain something I don't understand anyway, I'm gonna just fondle the khuks I've got on hand.
Click to expand...

I'm with Rusty on this one. At least I really hope I am. After buying two khuks in two weeks, if I get another one I'm gonna be eating lawn clippings in the immdiate future. I aleady ate the dandelions.
 
Originally posted by Rusty
Just don't forget the 16.5 WW2. A statistically abnormal number of people seem to find it magic.
Click to expand...

I resemble that remark!:D:D:p
 
Originally posted by Don Nelson ......I've got some half a dozen agility models running in a spreadsheet right now. I'll revisit them later this week, but I think we are real close to something here.
Click to expand...
Don, Here are some new calcs for your own blade list.

Check the following results for trends & fit.
My preference is for the 2nd value on each line.
Some of the numbers I had written down for other reasons,
so I included them for no good reason.
My BP values were -not- adjusted between khuk & not-khuk;
so all numbers are directly comparable.

I have difficulty keeping numbers straight,
so I'm rechecking calcs for simple errors.
There may be several.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

15" Sirupati [sq rt 15.5" x 15-oz x 3.63" / 100] = 2.1 Mk4
// 19.2 / 22.1 / 1.15 // 0.97 / 3.04 / 4.50 / 1.48

15" BAS [sq rt 15.63" x 20-oz x 3.88" / 100] = 3.1
// 23.1 / 26.3 / 1.14 // 1.28 / 4.33 / 5.61 / 1.30

18" Chit [sq rt 18.13" x 18-oz x 4.0" / 100] = 3.1
// 23.2 / 26.3 / 1.13 // 0.99 / 3.47 / 4.46 / 1.29

18" Gelbu [sq rt 18.25" x 20-oz x 4.06" / 100] = 3.5
// 24.7 / 27.9 / 1.13 // 1.1 / 3.92 / 5.02 / 1.28

18" Sirupati [sq rt 18.38" x 20-oz x 4.38" / 100] = 3.8
// 25.8 / 28.9 / 1.12 // 1.09 / 4.23 / 5.32 / 1.26

20" Kobra [sq rt 20.38" x 20-oz x 5.44" / 100] = 4.9
//29.9 / 32.8 / 1.09 // 0.98 / 4.84 / 5.82 / 1.20

18" Ang Khola [sq rt 18.5" x 32-oz x 4.63" / 100] = 6.4
// 33.7 / 37.6 / 1.12 // 1.73 / 7.14 / 8.87 / 1.24

A&A Black Prince Type XV [Sq Rt of 43.75 x 56 x 2.25 / 100]= 8.3
// 40.8 / 49.1 / 1.20 // 1.28 / 2.88 / 4.16 / 1.44

AT1421 Type XIII [Sq Rt of 40.75 x 47 x 6.25 / 100]= 18.8
// 61.2 / 66.0 / 1.08 // 1.15 / 7.29 / 8.34 / 1.144

A&A 12th Century Sword [Sq Rt of 43.0 x 56 x 6.9 / 100]= 25.2
// 71.2 / 76.2 / 1.07 // 1.30 / 8.97 / 10.27 / 1.145

If there are any trends you find especially interesting I'll give you the calc.

BTW, My new AK18" & my new Chinese Dao, of which I said;
"Instead of 4 & 13, I think something like 5 & 8 would be better.
Or on a scale of 1-100, something like 30 & 50. The dao is pretty maneuverable.",
Come out as 31 & 53 using the first result listed for each of the above.
To match the 2nd result, the AK is 34.7 & the Dao is 55.9.
 
Originally posted by ddean
Don, Here are some new calcs for your own blade list.

Check the following results for trends & fit.
My preference is for the 2nd value on each line.
Some of the numbers I had written down for other reasons,
so I included them for no good reason.
My BP values were -not- adjusted between khuk & not-khuk;
so all numbers are directly comparable.

I have difficulty keeping numbers straight,
so I'm rechecking calcs for simple errors.
There may be several.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

15" Sirupati [sq rt 15.5" x 15-oz x 3.63" / 100] = 2.1 Mk4
// 19.2 / 22.1 / 1.15 // 0.97 / 3.04 / 4.50 / 1.48

15" BAS [sq rt 15.63" x 20-oz x 3.88" / 100] = 3.1
// 23.1 / 26.3 / 1.14 // 1.28 / 4.33 / 5.61 / 1.30

18" Chit [sq rt 18.13" x 18-oz x 4.0" / 100] = 3.1
// 23.2 / 26.3 / 1.13 // 0.99 / 3.47 / 4.46 / 1.29

18" Gelbu [sq rt 18.25" x 20-oz x 4.06" / 100] = 3.5
// 24.7 / 27.9 / 1.13 // 1.1 / 3.92 / 5.02 / 1.28

18" Sirupati [sq rt 18.38" x 20-oz x 4.38" / 100] = 3.8
// 25.8 / 28.9 / 1.12 // 1.09 / 4.23 / 5.32 / 1.26

20" Kobra [sq rt 20.38" x 20-oz x 5.44" / 100] = 4.9
//29.9 / 32.8 / 1.09 // 0.98 / 4.84 / 5.82 / 1.20

18" Ang Khola [sq rt 18.5" x 32-oz x 4.63" / 100] = 6.4
// 33.7 / 37.6 / 1.12 // 1.73 / 7.14 / 8.87 / 1.24

A&A Black Prince Type XV [Sq Rt of 43.75 x 56 x 2.25 / 100]= 8.3
// 40.8 / 49.1 / 1.20 // 1.28 / 2.88 / 4.16 / 1.44

AT1421 Type XIII [Sq Rt of 40.75 x 47 x 6.25 / 100]= 18.8
// 61.2 / 66.0 / 1.08 // 1.15 / 7.29 / 8.34 / 1.144

A&A 12th Century Sword [Sq Rt of 43.0 x 56 x 6.9 / 100]= 25.2
// 71.2 / 76.2 / 1.07 // 1.30 / 8.97 / 10.27 / 1.145

If there are any trends you find especially interesting I'll give you the calc.

BTW, My new AK18" & my new Chinese Dao, of which I said;
"Instead of 4 & 13, I think something like 5 & 8 would be better.
Or on a scale of 1-100, something like 30 & 50. The dao is pretty maneuverable.",
Come out as 31 & 53 using the first result listed for each of the above.
To match the 2nd result, the AK is 34.7 & the Dao is 55.9.
Click to expand...

Looks interesting. Yes, I'd be interested in the formula.

A couple tangential notes:

1. I have to confess to having a hard time evaluating the comparison of my Black Prince versus my 18" AK. The Black Prince's tip agility is nothing short of startling. It can maneuver in the most intricate ways, but there is no getting away from the fact that I'm shoving 3.5-lbs of steel around. The 18" AK's tip doesn't move nearly as nicely, but because it's only 2-lbs, I work a lot less harder moving my entire hand around.

This is an important concept to keep in mind, that the study of a given piece's agility needs to take into account not just the ability of the tip to get to where you want it to, but also for the entire hand to move as well. I know this seems terribly obvious to many, but with swords there is a tendancy to want to minimize hand movement while focusing on tip movement (except when delivering cuts of course).

2. Your formulation may or may not be pretty close regarding the BP and AK. I'll need to ponder it a bit. Like I said, the two pieces puzzle me because they are so hugely different in weight, configuration and design.

Don
 
Originally posted by Don Nelson
I have to confess to having a hard time evaluating the comparison of my Black Prince versus my 18" AK. The Black Prince's tip agility is nothing short of startling. Don
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that the tip agility has more to do with the length
viewed as a lever with the fulcrum at the balance point.
Wag the pommel of the AK & the tip moves about the same amount as pommel.
Wag the pommel of the Prince &, because the BP is relatively far from the tip,
The tip moves further than the pommel.
So greater tip agility.

Formula for first result is:

SqRt( (PoBg x 2) x Wt x SqRt(OAL))
(PoB at pommel side of guard) times (Wt) gives torque? measure on both sides of the lever
Times SqRt(OAL) for the same reason you used it
SqRt (last result) pulls the numbers closer together,
and happens to pull most potential results within the century mark.
I like the 0-100ish results.

So the Prince:
SqRt( (2.25 x 2) x 56 x SqRt(43.75) ) = 40.826
And the AK:
SqRt( (4.13 x 2) x 32 x SqRt(18.5) ) = 33.718

2nd result/column increases the balance point measure by 1" (PoBh)
on -all- swords & khuks, to measure from about the middle finger of a standard grip.

3rd column is %-difference (2nd / 1st = %).
4th column is Wt / OAL
5th column is PoB measure x 4th column
6th column adds 1" to PoB measure in 5th column calc
7th column is %-diff again, re columns 5 & 6.


What numbers have you been looking at on your spreadsheet?
 
Originally posted by Don Nelson
that the study of a given piece's agility needs to take into account not just the ability of the tip to get to where you want it to, but also for the entire hand to move as well
Click to expand...
For measuring agility brought about by different lengths,
there are 6'ish measures that I think need to be thought through:
PoBh (distance from point of balance to rear of guard (PoBg)(then add 1" :D (PoBh) ))
Distance from pommel to balance point.
Distance from tip to balance point.
Distance from pommel to (h) or (g).
Distance from tip to (h) or (g).

Where (g) is the rear of the guard/bolster.
and (h) is the ((g)+ 1"), or measure to the hand.

Some sort of ratios indicating that the length in front of the hand
is being torqued by the hand.
If the sword is wagged freely, it rotates around the PoB,
But, if the hand 'controls' the front of the sword,
then you create a, what?, "artificial PoB" closer to or inside the hand.
Oh, yeah, fulcrum.

Then -maybe- include Wt in the calc.
Thinking of this as maybe a seperate calc from NSHR Mk#?
 
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