Input for large S30V FRN clipit.

Carlos

Carlos

Joined
Jul 9, 2000
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In another thread, Sal was asking whether anyone would be interested in an FRN Military. Thinking about it, it seemed to me that the opportunity presented is to fill the slot for a full-size, 3.5" to 4" blade clipit, with an S30V blade and FRN scales, to be manufactured in the US. Right now there isn't one in the Spyderco line, and there never has been one. There is no Golden made counterpart to the Endura.

Now the "Endura 4" coming out next year will be a pretty sophisicated knife: dual steel liners, 4-way clip mounting, a waved variant in regular production, handle and blade shape refinements, etc.

So the question is, if Spyderco were going to make a large FRN folder at Golden, what would you want to realistically see in it?

Just an FRN-scaled version of the eventual Military 2 with whatever new lock the G10 version gets? I suppose some "Native Chief" fans will chime in, but I suspect that the Native has't been successful enough pre-Wally World to merit a big brother.

Personally, I think maybe a new design is called for. Honestly, I don't think you can do enough volume with a flat-ground knife to pay the costs of tooling up for an FRN handle.

But we could use the same design thesis: If you were going to give an FRN knife to your child or sibling that was going to serve in the Military, what features would you want it to have?

Anyway, those are some thoughts and questions. Lets hear what you think.

***Also, I want to add: this thread is to get feedback from people to like to use FRN. So don't threadcrap on it about hating FRN and that you prefer G10 or whatever. If you do that I will treat you like troll. Just skip this thread if you don't have productive input.***
 
NATIVE CHIEF
Or maybe a scale shape of the Lum Tanto with FRN and a spear point blade.
 
To answer my own question, a Military purposed S30V/FRN folder:


1. A blade shape purpose-designed to handle a lot of prying. Not just a strengthened re-shaped Military tip, but a tip that can handle daily prying, and occassional missuse as a screwdriver, yet that still has a realistic functional point for penetration - maybe not delicate work. Maybe a reverse tanto?

2. 14mm hole.

3. Ambi lock that can be managed with gloves - I like the look of the new and improved ball lock. Can you get high heavy duty in an FRN knife?
 
Carlos said:
In another thread, Sal was asking whether anyone would be interested in an FRN Military. Thinking about it, it seemed to me that the opportunity presented is to fill the slot for a full-size, 3.5" to 4" blade clipit, with an S30V blade and FRN scales, to be manufactured in the US. Right now there isn't one, and there never has been one. There is no US made counterpart to the Endura.
Click to expand...

None now, yes. Never has been? Benchmade has made at least 3 different 4" blade Zytel Made In USA folders in the last half dozen or so years. (Eclipse, Ascent, etc - model numbers in the 820 to 845 range.) Now those were the pre S30V years, but they came in Gin-1, ATS-34, 154CM, 440C, and M2. Nice knives, I have one in M2 with a 3.5" full flat leaf blade.

Back to the topic at hand - there was a limited run Police model (G-10? Carbon Fiber? I can't remember) with a full flat grind. It was gorgeous (and now collectable, and expensive, of course.) I think that would make one hell of a Zytel folder. Next option - Zytel Manix. Least likely one, because it's more work since it's all new - a Zytel Yojimbo with a 4" blade (and, for affordability, presumably a lockback rather than compression.)

I'd buy any or all of those.
 
Nick Hyle said:
None now, yes. Never has been? Benchmade has made at least 3 different 4" blade Zytel Made In USA folders in the last half dozen or so years. .
Click to expand...

I impliclity meant no Spydercos like this. This is specifically the Spyderco forum and I was discussing the Spyderco line. I'll clarify the text though to save confusion. THX
 
I have always liked the Catcherman handle and for that matter the blade also until the really really thin MBS26 blade came out. I prefer the AUS8 one to be honest because it is more rigid and easier to control for me.

But to get back to the question at hand. Whats wrong with a S30V blade in something thicker than the old AUS8 fillet blade with a Sabre grind (or flat would be fine too I guess) shaped more like a Manix, Millie or Para Millie blade, or a Tanto for that matter, but using that same old great FRN Catcherman handle? I mean Spyderco already has the mold for it so tooling up should be nil cost wise. I'd probably suggest a metal clip on a heavier use blade type knife though and FRN handle lined with steel or titanium like the new Delica and Endura would be almost a necessity for a 'heavy duty' or 'heavy use' folder.

STR
 
The Catcherman with a thicker blade in S30V (or how about M-4?) would be awesome. If Spyderco could enter the “massive but not so expensive” folder market, I would be very pleased.
 
To me, Carlos, you seem to be crossing expectations. You want a FRN knife (FRN is good as it is durable, inexpensive (compared to g-10, micarta, SS, and CF), and most importantly light weight) but you want it to perform prying activities and extreme hard use. If you ask the question of what you want in knife to send your child to war with, it seems you would look further than FRN. Seems like we would have to add quite a bit of reinforcement to get a folding prybar, thereby reducing the #1 quality of FRN, its lightweight. I always assumed it was a great light duty use material. A frn knife in this size range should, of course, offer something different than the endura. A Calypso blade or a Police in FRN would do that.
 
Carlos said:
3. Ambi lock that can be managed with gloves - I like the look of the new and improved ball lock. Can you get high heavy duty in an FRN knife?
Click to expand...

The D'Allara Rescue models would indicate the affirmative.

I love my FRN Wayne Goddard, and would suggest that model as a possibility.

Tom
 
For me the nicest thing about Spyderco's FRN knives is that they can pack a lot of super sharp blade into a thin and light package. So I would like to see a design that makes use of those advantages. Maybe a Chinook lightweight? Put the ergos of that type of handle into FRn and pair it up with a large scary sharp blade and keep it at a reasonable price and oh yeah, wave that puppy.
As far as s30v is concerned, I like it but I haven't found it to out perform VG10 for my uses so I would be hesitant if I thought I was paying just for the steel.
 
Now that I've handled a Native, my vote goes for big chief. You did say that this was a lesser possiblity though....
 
zenheretic said:
To me, Carlos, you seem to be crossing expectations. You want a FRN knife
. If you ask the question of what you want in knife to send your child to war with, it seems you would look further than FRN.

Seems like we would have to add quite a bit of reinforcement to get a folding prybar, thereby reducing the #1 quality of FRN, its lightweight. I always assumed it was a great light duty use material. A frn knife in this size range should, of course, offer something different than the endura. A Calypso blade or a Police in FRN would do that.
Click to expand...
yep when it comes down to it 60 extra bucks to upgrade from FRN to the mili and g10 is cheap life insurance
im of the thinking that the endura pushes the frn hard it does it well but to me its cutting it close
to add more strength by adding liners ups cost and heft im just not sure its worth it
butch
edit to add i started with a frn endura se and then moved up to a mili i loved them both but i needed a real hard use knife and the mili was the one
my little brother got the endura and still uses it today not bad for a knife i got in the late 80s
 
Seems to make more sense to me to just use the FRN and line it with steel to make a good heavy duty folder. Wouldn't this be cheaper than doing a G10 one?

STR
 
I would LOVE to see a big version of the Calypso, Jr. ZDP, or S30V 3.5-4 inch blade, burgundy handles, black clip.
 
Following on Carlos comments for prying tip AND no flat grind ( I agree, flat grind unfortunately not good for selling ), maybe sabre ground blade with slight belly a la Military but with more curve to spine instead of " straight clip style ", something between sheepsfoote and pointy wharnecliff with full thickness of spine coming very close to tip. Maybe like Centofante but with slight belly?????
 
Look at this way: Imagine a knife that could be sold in the PX, and that the average soldier could afford on their salary. My mention of prying isn't about making a folding prybar per se, so much as bringing up the reality of how folders get used by guys in the field. I'm not sure that there is any reason that an FRN scaled knife should be substantially weaker than a G10 one, given that it isn't the scales that fail in either case.

Can we have a FRN knife that is as tough as a Manix or Chinook? More a technical question for Sal.
 
I do know guys that push the FRN handled knives they own to the limits both from Spyderco and Cold Steel's Zytel. Some of the Meyerco knives I've had in my shop break apart very easily and are somewhat brittle compared to the Spydies and the CS ones I've had apart. There is a difference in quality from one FRN to another I can tell you that from personal experience. I feel Spyderco and CS make some of the strongest FRN/Zytel handles on the market today though. You can't just snap them easily even after you cut them apart to remake the knife.

STR
 
I think a flat ground blade is A) the best slicer/cutter available and B) can sell quite a few -- provided the blade shape is right.

I would suggest a deep belly on a low straight clip point -- basically, something close to a recurve without the aggravation of actually recurving it. If you hold it in a saber grip, your index finger should point directly where the tip is. A nice large hole, with a filed thumbramp, or possibly a cobra hood. Keep the spine of the blade as wide as possible for half it's length, so you keep the strength and have a good place to rest your finger for fine control.

The lock doesn't matter too much: there are plenty of good, strong, ambidextrous, no-finger-in-the-blade-path locks. Compression, ball bearing, AXIS, even the good old back lock. Pick whichever is easiest to clean -- you can bet that there will be dust and dirt accumulating.
 
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