Input on Cryo treating...

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Dec 26, 2007
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I would like any info on cryo treating my blades, I understand liquid nitrogen is the best way, but have heard some folks say dry ice, which maybe more economical and a little safer. Also, can anyone buy liquid nitrogen? Thanks for the help, Rex
 
Yes anyone can buy liquid nitrogen check your local welders supply. You will need a container you can buy or lease a vaccum vessel from them also gloves, face shield, etc...
 
Usually you can get a welders supply to fill a thermos the only thing is use a cork
they get excited if you bring one in with an airtite screw on stopper. When I used to do it this way it would last about 2 days before evaporating. Now I use a 10 liter dewar and am getting close to a month before its gone.
Ken.
 
Would it be logical to assume that pre-cooling your blades in the freezer would help make the LN last longer?
 
Is there any way to check for retained austenite? So that you know when to stop the cryo treating.
 
What I was going to do was put the whole dewar in the freezer-- but I the found out my freezer is one of those with non removeable shelving. So after the first 10 liters
of LN lasted right at a month for like $17.00 its pretty convenient having it right in the shop. I usually heat treat weekly sometimes more sometimes less, at any rate to be able to have LN in the shop 24-7 for the price I can live with it
Ken.
 
Retained austenite - x-ray crystallography will measure austenite.However you can't remove all RA so just leave it in there for 6-8 hours.
Dry ice will get to about -100 F, LN about -300 F...Always temper after Cryo.
 
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If you're utilizing a steel and HT approach that lowers Mf you probably need cryo. D2 and stainless are probably going to need it - 1084 probably not. O1 - open to debate.

In order for it to work best you want to eliminate things that can cause it to stabilize. For many steels that means it needs to be a part of a continuous quench. So don't delay unnecessarily.

Some steel and some geometry should receive a snap temper to reduce brittleness and chance of cracking. The price will be more RA.

My D2 goes from 1850 to -100 in one smooth drop. But, when treated the way I like it, it has a tendency to retain pretty badly if I don't. The theoretical Mf for D2 is frequently shown down around that value, and my experience has shown little difference going to -300 with D2. I use dry ice because I usually do large batches, not daily use.

I don't understand why time at that temp makes a difference (we're not austenitizing) but that is the general consensus.

In theory you can measure RA with a calibrated magnet, but I wouldn't know where to begin with something like that.
 
I have been using Dry Ice and 91% Alcohol for over 10 years. It gets down to minus 109 degrees F. Subzero quench one time for six (6) hours, anything that is going to convert will convert in this time frame. I temper once before sub-zero quench and twice after it.
This is what works for me, and has for a long time.
Curtis Wilson
Wilson's Custom Knives, Engraving, and Scrimshaw
 
Modern heat treating shops usually use a gas pressurised quench and then slowly bring it down to -300F and back to room temperature over a 24 hour period. The rate of temperature change is electronically managed. Then for tool steels, triple tempering.
 
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