Instinctive archers

I am fully aware that you get more or better penetration from a heavier arrow. I am shooting a 30" 3555 Gold Tip carbon arrow with 125gr field point or broad head, with a 4" piece of hard wood dowl (sp) glued behinde the insert. I rewieghed it and I am well over 400gr per arrow. With a speed of over 195fps, that should pass through any deer at 20yrds or less. Every deer I shot with my 595gr to 600gr cedars using 2 blade zawiki's was a complete pass through, except the one I shot in the hinder (oops). And Dawg, I hope you have a back up, cause I don't think flintloks and bears should go together:D
 
I shoot with a guy who has taken many animals with his 57# long bow. From 7 animals over in africa, one being a lion, to just shooting a muskox this last winter. Penetration is a huge factor, but shot placement is also very high on the list too.
 
I agree..placement is everything. As regards the flintlock, I have had percussions and flinters (nature of the beast) misfire in bear situations. My experience has been that a flinter can be cleared and brought back into action MUCH faster than a cap gun. It (when properly tuned and handled) is a faster lock than a cap gun.And I don't carry a backup. The reason being is that if I'm close enough to use a B.P. firearm, I'm toast waaaay before I get a second weapon into play.(Which is where the placement comes into it..). My only intention regarding arrow types etc is that I see a gradual drift into modern materials and away from traditional in both archery and black powder. I prefer to choose one or the other (modern or traditional) rather than a blend. I'll stack a longbow against a compound or a flinter against a 7mm Mag anytime within realistic circumstances (i.e. real world hunting)..My feeling is that traditional archery should entail traditional materials and grams,FPS, modern heads don't really make sense in that realm.Different strokes fer.....
 
Hmmmmmmm.....
I have jumped in to have a look at how this thread is going and want to chuck in a little more from my end of the stick.
To start with, if we are going to shoot a sharp stick at a wild animal and dont want to just "piss it off" you really want to go for a "kill" shot first time. Just to clarify with everyone here we are talking about placement ... ie. the heart.
I dont know about all of us but I go for a heart kill shot "every time".
Now just to go a little further we can talk about penetration....
A water buffalo just for example has a hide over 1 inch thick not to mention fat layers. I'm thinking a cougar or moose have shoulder blades? A wounded animal is pretty damn dangerous and as for having a pistol at my side ... I don't get that comodity.
As for a spear or my trusty blade, I hope that its not my last line of defense.
Absolute minimum 60#
I gotta go .... back later
 
placement ... ie. the heart.
I dont know about all of us but I go for a heart kill shot "every time".
Click to expand...


For me it's a double lung shot. The heart is easily missed, and then there's "nomansland". Every traditional archer I have met has the utmost respect for the quarry and does what they can to make a clean kill.

If I miss, I pray for a clean miss.
 
I agree, proper shot placement is of paramount importance. Which means getting close, because no matter how fast you think your arrow is, a deer can jump the string or take a step and your perfect killing shot is now a wound, or worse, a long agonizing death for the animal.

Double lung for me as well. I've heart shot our little deer here and they run forever without a beating heart, but take their wind and they go down relatively fast. Either way, the boiler room (heart/lungs) is the only shot to take and shooting through a shoulder isn't an option. Waiting for the right shot, or passing on the shot, is simply the right thing to do.
 
Double long shot here too. Here's a slight twist on this thread. (don't mean to hyjack it) I know I have talked about arrow speed, but what is your comfort kill range? With my recurve, I do not take shots over 20yrds. Infact maybe all but a couple of my kills (deer(s), cyotes, coon, rabbits (white tail and jacks), muskrat, and a few birds) have all been under 15yrds. 95% of my hunt is seeing how close I can get or let the animal get to me before I take my shot. Some times I think they will spook when they hear my heart pounding so hard. :D
 
All my shots have been well within 20 yards. I do love to shoot novilty shoots when practicing, like hit the pie plate at 80 yrds.or moving targets.
 
I'm a rover and love to take shots at LONG!!!! unknown distances, but nearly all of my shots on live game and literally all but a couple of my shots on large game have been under 20 paces. I've never hunted from a tree, prefering to stillhunt and choose a natural blind or a rock face/formation that elevates me several feet. Stood on a stump once and 3 deer walked passed me like I didn't exist and I was wearing a T shirt and shorts.:D
 
I really like reading feedback from different perspectives and the power of this forum is awesome :)
I wanted to finish by maybe throwing in a little more on the traditional aspect ... I got a lot more serious with archery when I joined a field archery club where we progressed through a course shooting at animal targets without sights (bare bow) and scoring hits with the highest score being the first arrow and centre of the chest.
I think this is a good way to develop draw and release techniques while navigating through the bush.
I have always steered clear of takedown recurve bows because they tend to "stack" as the string is being drawn meaning the draw is not smooth and release much the same as the draw resulting in poor accuracy and inconsistancies. I guess there are really good takedown bows but I have never used one.
My favourite bows are longbows but they are awkward for hunting due to their length. The mighty compound makes it easier to wait for that best shot but I guess the recurve is in my opinion the best all round bow.
I hope my views give a little more to think about.
 
My longbow is a 66" 2 piece takedown made by Chek-Mate and is called the Crusader. If I'm correct with this information, they are available from 62".

My favorite recurve is a 60" 3 piece takedown. No stacking with this bow and it's smooth and fast. It will take draw lengths up to 30" and if the draw is longer, it's available in longer lengths. It is also made by Chek-Mate, which is a Canadian bow company.

Here's a couple photos. Not the best and I havn't taken any with the good camera. It's Shedua/bubinga with Red Elm limbs. A real beauty.


mycm5.jpg


mycm1.jpg
 
Wow, I like it!

Ya gotta like the portability of a takedown and a good one to boot ... smooth and fast, poetry in motion ;)
 
I shoot a take-down also, a "B" mag. riser by Bear. They came in A, B, and C risers. The A was a shorter site window for hunting and the B for all around, the C has got a long site window and was designed for target archery. The B is the smoothest recurve that I have ever shot and is fast as hell. Stack does not exsist and is dead quiet. Grips were interchangeable and I use the high wrist grip. Bear put these out at the same time that the compound came out and pretty much killed it. Speed is cool, but if the shot aint in the right place it don't matter. A guy at a 3-d shoot was grousing at me cause I couldn't get my arrow out of a target and said, "it can't be in that far!"
You pull it, I said. His eyes got very wide when it took us both to put it.:D
It's fun to rattle compound shooters arrows when they don't think that they should "pull' before you step too.:thumbup: Compounds have thier place. I figure it they let more folks enjoy archery that might be turned off by the sport if they had to figure out traditional archery.
All this prattle being said(by me)a bow is just a bent stick to shoot a REALLY straight one and the focus on bows should be second to arrows.
 
I agree. The arrow is the most important part of the equation, but even a bent arrow can be made to shoot straight.:D
 
Hey Longbow, I think I am going to get the Hunter II from Chek-Mate with a Cocobolo riser & Black Walnut limbs. Do you have any suggestions for me about ordering, is there anything you would have changed in hind sight?
 
Does Check Mate do antler accents on their bows? If so, I would get them to put antler on the tips of the limbs and antler on the front of the riser. It really dresses up the bow. You will like that cocabolo riser, it's heavy and dense wood, really tames down the hand shock, not that recurves have a lot in the first place. Here is the bowyer that made my recurve for me, I have the Taiga take down recurve with the cocabolo riser and red elm limbs. What's nice about the take down recurves besides being really portable, you can have other limbs made for it to change your draw wgt if you ever want to.
http://www.cari-bow.com/
 
Temper said:
Hey Longbow, I think I am going to get the Hunter II from Chek-Mate with a Cocobolo riser & Black Walnut limbs. Do you have any suggestions for me about ordering, is there anything you would have changed in hind sight?
Click to expand...

I like the combination you're thinking about getting. Nope, I wouldn't change a thing. The length could have gone a couple inches shorter, but I really like the way this bow shoots. Heck, the wife can pick it up and shoot her 1916s from it just as accurately as I shoot the 2016s and she draws it 2" less than I do. She's tried to lay claim to it many times.:D The bow shoots the exact same arrow that my longbow does and is 5# less in weight.

Chad Weaver of recurves.com is who I've done business with and he's top notch. He can help you through the ordering process and explain advantages of how to order it in different configurations and he can make you up a couple of his flemish strings, which are top notch. I shoot dyna97 from the bow and with wooly silencers it's a soft thud with an 8" brace height. Of course, each bow is different.
 
Yeah, I am going to contact Chad when I am ready, or at least about 4 months before I want it to be delivered.

I am still using the Damon Howatt Monterey at the moment and getting used to the increase in power. After 100 or so shots I can start to see a drop in consiteny, so after this I usually go to the warm up area and shoot 3 or 5 rounds of anchor and release prectice.
 
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