Interesting emails from a member on our raffle...

The very fact that the person sent an e-mail instead of questioning the raffle in a public forum shows a bit of good judgment on his part. A lot of problems with forums, message boards and mailing lists could be solved if more people used e-mail instead of bothring everybody in the group. Using e-mail was the right thing for the person to do. Publishing it is not the right thing.
 
I wouldn't give this member too much credit.

Here's the contents of his first email:
For your sake I hope you don't have too many math majors among your subscribers (or even any who know anything at all about gambling). A reasonable raffle is expected to make about 10% profit (unless it's for charity, in which case the profits may be 100% or more). In this raffle, at 5$ a pop (assuming 1000 tickets sold -- which I doubt even you expect), you would raise $5000 to give away a $150 dollar knife (and that's MSRP!!), or a $4850 profit -- anyone there with a pocket calculator want to figure out that profit, which is supposed to excite us?
What brilliant P.R. person thought up this piece of idiocy? Fire him (her) immediately, AFTER a quick reminder that we are not all morons out here.
(Care to publish this on the Forum page?)
Click to expand...

Here's my response:
Thanks for your opinion. If you have a better idea for us to raise money and make the forums self sufficient, please feel free to forward them to us. We are always happy to have *constructive* solutions presented for common problems.

Many people would jump at the chance to get a $150 knife for $5, but if you are not one of them, I'm sorry. I also wasn't aware that raffles had a *maximum* amount of profit allowed for the people running it. Thanks for your insight on this.

If you feel the need to "publish" this on the forums, please feel free to do so. Remember that while the forums are provided free of charge for all to use, they *aren't* free to run (far from it), and as such, we have to do something to defray those costs. If you can find a better solution, again, please feel free to forward it to us.

Spark
Click to expand...

I tried patiently to explain the facts of the matter to him, but he's more concerned with "proving" the scam(?!?) than listening to reason.

His response back:
Spark
Thanks for the quick response; I certainly never intended to say that you,
or any other free enterprise in the USA should be profit-limited in any
way. What I meant, and I thought I was clear in my meaning, is that this
contest is a much worse deal than any honest Lotto game (sure, in lotto my
chances of winning are only 1 in 7,000,000, but my expected winnings are
also 7,000,000 to 1. In your raffle, the expected winnings are 1 to 1,000
!!).
If you have many participants at those odds I will be astonished, and also
enlightened as to the mental abilities of your readers/subscribers.
I didn't think you would have the courage to publish my first letter. At
least you have been honest about your poorly hidden, poorly thought-out
greed.
Click to expand...

Again, my response to him:
I think your math is wrong here, you are applying relative values to odds which is not appropriate. Your odds are variable based on the number of entries. If we get 1000 tickets, they are 1 in 1000, but your expected winnings remain 43 to 1 ($215, the MSRP for a Sifu, divided by $5) which remain constant unless you purchase another ticket, in which case they are lowered..

This isn't a lottery. This is a raffle. The value of what you win doesn't change, it's a constant, just like every raffle. If you entered a raffle to win a firearm or a car, it's value wouldn't decrease if there were more entrants either.

You seem to be confused by the concept of a raffle, I hope you realize that they are *not* the same as a lottery. A raffle's prize value does not increase with more participants, it varies based on the number of tickets you purchase. A lotteries value increases with the number of participants.

I'll save the explanation for how Lotto actually works for a later discussion, as you don't seem to understand that either.

>If you have many participants at those
>odds I will be astonished, and also
>enlightened as to the mental abilities of
>your readers/subscribers.

Well, obviously since you are one of them, don't forget to include yourself among them. And since you have a hard time differentiating between the concepts of "raffle" and "lottery", please don't be so quick to throw stones.

>I didn't think you would have the courage
>to publish my first letter. At
>least you have been honest about your >poorly hidden, poorly thought-out greed.

I see. And since you have no constructive comments to add I'm going to guess that this is just a rail against the injustices of us trying to find a way to support the site that you, coincidentally, use for free?

BTW, just for your information, we don't "publish" letters. Feel free to take the time to figure out how the site actually works: People engage in discussions by posting their own topics and replies. We don't filter them, or pick and choose which ones are "published", instead we allow people to post to their hearts content.

Sir, I sincerely hope that you are just having a bad day and are taking this out on us because you don't have another outlet. I hope it brightens for you soon.

Spark
Click to expand...

Heck, he thought we "published" letters, so that should tell you something right there.

This guy is a troll. He is only interested in starting a fight. Don't give him credit for being a good samaritan, it doesn't apply here.

I tried being polite with him, and after these emails, it's all going downhill. So, you see what I deal with.

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 17 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 17 December 1999).]
 
You're right Spark. You're not dealing with a rational person with legitimate concerns.
 
I was going to post a note asking you NOT to post private emails from this confused person. However, I can see why you did print the emailer's excerpted comments in your last post since he challenged you to post his first letter and attacked your credibility. I still think most of us didn't need to see any of this, but since you felt the need to explain your side of this issue, so be it. I am truly sorry that the money side of this site's operations has been so thoroughly discussed recently, since I am here moslty to talk about knives and have some fun. But until this site can operate without money being a constant concern, we All need to help find a solution to this problem if we want to continue enjoying Blade Forums. I for one am very sympathetic to Mike's money difficulties, and do not feel he has been misleading, dishonest, or greedy.

Paracelsus
 
Spark, you are obviously wasting time trying to reason with this guy. I won't fault his math, just his understanding of what a raffle is. The thought that anyone would limit their sale of tickets to X, if they reasonably though they could sell 10X, is ridiculous. While I have seen limited tickets in individual raffles, those tickets sold for MUCH more money than we are talking about.
Side story: I remember a paper article, maybe twenty years ago. A local employee of a large defense plant was terminated for ruunning his own raffle. Seems he was selling tickets for his paycheck. He was netting around 500 a week. The raffle was earning him a minimum of 1500. Fire him? I would have put him on my Board of Directors.

------------------
Live free and buy. It's the American way.
 
OK, so you posted the e-mails (NO, THEY'RE NOT MINE! I DIDN'T WRITE THEM. I PROMISE.) Now drop it, please.

Anyone with half a brain can see that if you pay $5 for a chance to win a BF Native or a Sifu, and win that knife, you just got a good deal. Beyond that, it just doesn't matter. I personally would put his name in the kill file of my e-mail until the raffle was over.

Of course, $5 for *** *** is a rip off...

JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING!!!! Well, sort of.

------------------
"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
St. Mary's County, Republik of Marilundt

 
"In your raffle, the expected winnings are 1 to 1,000 !!).
If you have many participants at those odds I will be astonished, and also
enlightened as to the mental abilities of your readers/subscribers."

Uhmmm... at those odds, there would be 1,000 participants... (!)

Thanks for the laugh, Spark, and keep up the good work here at bladeforums!

------------------
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
Spark and I discussed this and I asked Spark to do the above based on the fact the person stated he would send emails to our members.

Hopefully by posting the above, this person will is is not necessary to do that now. He has already sent a few emails from what he stated. We are showing both sides at the same time so you all can decide.

The emails were addressed to me. Spark answered them for me because if I would have answered them I would not have been so polite. The individual has my phone number. Should he choose to do so, he may contact me, at my expense, and I will explain what we intend to do around here.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Support BladeForums! Check out the BFC Store!
www.bladeforums.com/store
Subscribe our NEW online magazine!
www.bladeforums.com/magazine
Enter our Raffle!
www.bladeforums.com/raffle
 
Oh Spark-

Your responses are so typical of the corporate-overlord capitalist. You sit there in your comfy chair and count your millions which you earned on the backs of Taiwanese knife-making children being paid five cents an hour.

Can you PROVE your html was written using union labor?

If not, WHY NOT? This is just another damn example of why large megalithic multinational corporations are out there screwing us little people.

You and Turber are corporate running pigs of the worst type.

smile.gif
 
Eric R,

Check your head for a hole because you've lost all your marbles friend. I've yet to see any knives discussed in here that were made by children making 5 cents an hour. But then I have not read every single post yet.
Get real.

I like my sarcasm dry...



------------------
Mutt

Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou
suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right
RW
 
Oh Brother... Reminds me of me 5 years ago.
Just reply to his E-mail telling him how close to home he is, and that the $5000 you guys raised is going towards a new car for Mike. And that these forums really do pay for themselves and this is some greed-drive money making scam and now that he knows the whoel story his profile will be deleted and he IP will be banned.

That or you could continue to tell the truth, whichever you prefer
smile.gif
.

Sincerely,
Adam

------------------
Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
Hey Spark,
In the store the BFC Native sells for $99.95. You sold 20 tickets for the Native raffle, $100. You made whatever the markup from the store is plus .05 cents!!! If I pay $5 and have a 1/20 chance of winning a $100 knife I'm estatic! Great odds, great raffle, great forum and great service your providing for this forum that we all love. Don't let one person spoil your day. For one person with complaints theres 4100 people who have only good things to say. Good job, keep it up.

------------------
Jake P
Anchorage,Alaska

 
Devilmutt

You have, either, absolutely no sense of irony or the finest honed one I have seen.

If the first is correct : lighten up.
If the second is correct....
smile.gif


------------------
BrianWE
ICQ #21525343
If you are not laughing, you may as well be crying.

 
This is funny.

A raffle is just that.

Mike and Spark, keep doing it the way you're doing it now.

Also, another good example of why posting emails has it's place.


------------------
Ron Knight
Scottsdale, Arizona
 
Eric R,

Are you kidding? If not you need to go back and look at Taiwan again and come down and look at the operation we are running. If Spark is counting Millions, we need to talk! If Taiwan children are making .05 an our then I need to go back to Taiwan with David Bloch and check this out. Last time I checked they are making nearly what the average US worker makes. China workers make, on average, about $160 a month.

Spark belongs to no union, unless you count the American Workers for the Advancement of those who wear Pink Tutus.

If not, WHY NOT? This is just another damn example of why large megalithic multinational corporations are out there screwing us little people.
Click to expand...

You need a job? Last I check my corporation is based right here and I own 100% of the shares.

I now you are joking but some of the others here may not
smile.gif



------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Support BladeForums! Check out the BFC Store!
www.bladeforums.com/store
Subscribe our NEW online magazine!
www.bladeforums.com/magazine
Enter our Raffle!
www.bladeforums.com/raffle
 
Woof!

Everybody STOP.

Devilmutt: Get a GRIP! It WAS A J - O - K - E.

JOKE:Main Entry: 1joke
Pronunciation: 'jOk
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin jocus; perhaps akin to Old High German gehan to say, Sanskrit yAcati he asks
Date: 1670
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something (2) : an instance of jesting : KIDDING <can't take a joke> c : PRACTICAL JOKE d : LAUGHINGSTOCK
2 : something not to be taken seriously : a trifling matter <consider his skiing a joke -- Harold Callender> -- often used in negative construction <it is no joke to be lost in the desert>

Brian E: Thanks. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Mike Turber: Dangit. Spark's tutus are also made, I bet, by Kathy Lee Crosby and her evil minions.

Sorry Dude. Anyone who take me seriously DEFINITELY needs a humor transplant. Have them call me. I have a friend in the UN World Domination Control Center who can arrange it for them.

Geez. Can't a guy even point out an obvious capitalist illuminati one-world conspiracy without getting his damn head bit off around here?

[This message has been edited by Eric R (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
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