Interesting Sharpmaker Results/Conclusions

[Mr.SATism]

So I recently bought myself a Spyderco sharpmaker and have been practicing my sharpening on my Kershaw shuffle 2 (8crmov13 is VERY easy to sharpen,) and I noticed certain things not only about the sharpmaker, but myself and the knife. Any opinions/recommendations/constructive criticisms are always welcome!

1. The stones for the sharpmaker are AMAZING!- I managed to get this knife so sharp that for the first time tonight I got to tear a piece of tissue paper! That is so cool! I can't wait to push this edge further!

2. I am apparently good at freehanding- Don't get me wrong, I am giving the shuffle the quick and dirty because I can only practice an hour a day. But after not being satisfied with how the edge seems uneven (see point 3), I took the rods in my hand and stroke it the correct amount of times on the edges and knicked myself a couple of times haha. When I was finished, I took it to a piece of tissue (see point 1). I can thank Michael Christy for the method that I used tonight, even though I still have no idea what I'm looking for (yes I will try the sharpie method soon)

3. I think my knife might be ground unevenly?- After I finished sharpening my knife every time, I tried to push cut it (or drop cut it? when you take a single piece of the edge and run it down a piece of paper) and every time like clockwork, the knife always moves to the right instead of consistently down. I originally thought that I was messing up so I tried doing more strokes on either side to test it, but it just passed the burr from one side to the other. I do believe I will need to reprofile this knife with something coarse.

4. I don't know whether to trust Spyderco's angles- This is probably an irrational fear, but I do wonder about when the rods fit into the base, whether they are supposed to have some wiggle room. This is probably nothing, and I can fix it by inserting some paper inside so it won't wiggle

Conclusion- You can't go wrong with the sharpmaker. Please do not misunderstand that. For the money that you are paying, it is giving you some of Spyderco's finest ceramic stones. That being said, I wonder what would've happened if I bought a Spyderco double-stuff knowing I like free handing so much. I do have a jeweler's loupe and 2 UF rods coming in, and I am wondering about whether or not to send the UF rods back and order a UF stone instead of the rod. Oh well, it's late now, and I believe it's time to go and see if the Bar Keeper is truly my Friend haha.

 

[jc57]

4. I don't know whether to trust Spyderco's angles- This is probably an irrational fear, but I do wonder about when the rods fit into the base, whether they are supposed to have some wiggle room. This is probably nothing, and I can fix it by inserting some paper inside so it won't wiggle

The angles are not exact. You can use a clinometer app on your phone, or other angle measuring tool, to find out what they really are.

My 20 degree slots are more like 21 on the inner side and 22 on the outer, and the 15 degree slots are 15.5 inner and 16 outer. It really won't make any difference in practice.

 

[Mr.SATism]

The angles are not exact. You can use a clinometer app on your phone, or other angle measuring tool, to find out what they really are.

My 20 degree slots are more like 21 on the inner side and 22 on the outer, and the 15 degree slots are 15.5 inner and 16 outer. It really won't make any difference in practice.

Thanks for that, I thought that I would have to buy one for myself haha. And it's a little upsetting that it might be off, but I paid $60-ish, so I can't really complain. If they are off, I'll try and find a way to fix them and make a post about my findings. What I did before using the rods as croc sticks was putting them on the bottom slots and using it as a 'stone', which worked, but it was not stable (smooth plastic bottom).

 

[aleforme]

Thanks for that, I thought that I would have to buy one for myself haha. And it's a little upsetting that it might be off, but I paid $60-ish, so I can't really complain. If they are off, I'll try and find a way to fix them and make a post about my findings. What I did before using the rods as croc sticks was putting them on the bottom slots and using it as a 'stone', which worked, but it was not stable (smooth plastic bottom).

If you like the Spyderco rods and like to freehand, take a look at the Spyderco 8x2 inch stones. They come in Medium, Fine and Ultra fine. Not cheap but they work pretty much the same as the rods. I keep the Fine out on my kitchen counter to touch up my chef knives. A few passes on the stone and the knife is back to screaming sharp.

 

[Mr.SATism]

If you like the Spyderco rods and like to freehand, take a look at the Spyderco 8x2 inch stones. They come in Medium, Fine and Ultra fine. Not cheap but they work pretty much the same as the rods. I keep the Fine out on my kitchen counter to touch up my chef knives. A few passes on the stone and the knife is back to screaming sharp.

What a day! I didn't even know they made full sized ones! Considering that my biggest knife is a cold steel recon 1, I don't think that the full sized stones would be as practical for my smaller knives, but I come from the school of thought that says that a small stone can flex into a big stone (which is why the doublestuff was so appealing). I'll try and hunt down an ultra fine in a smaller size, but I think that the rods would be satisfactory for now. This is a 'baby's first sharpening system', so I want something that I can fit into the system I already have. Price is always an issue, but not so much for me, as I set my budget at 200$ and wanted to make this into a little project for myself (I'm a millennial, we're all about that overly complicated artsy DIY shtick ).

 

[willc]

Nice to see you are getting good results with the SM.
I also use the rods independent of the base most times.

As you progress most likely you will see that many blades from the factory are ground weird or have thickness at the heel which can throw things off.
Being able to evaluate a blade is pretty important as this will determine how to proceed.

When I do use the base and the angle doesn’t match where it should I just adjust the straight up and down to a slight angle, it really isn’t hard and with practice my results are very accurate.

I think you will appreciate the UF rods and good lighting and magnification are a big help too.

 

[BruceMack]

I use the Spyderco double stuff to refine a scratch pattern. Under binocular magnification, I run the knife longitudinally across the narrow dimension of the stone, tilting it toward the bevel so the new scratch pattern reaches the apex. Thus the bevel slides from tip to hilt or vice versa. While this is not the movement you would use on a larger stone, it allows me to make segmental adjustments as I near the curved tip. I don't have much experience in knife sharpening so I acknowledge that others may scoff at this method.

 

[Mr.SATism]

I think my biggest problem now with sharpening is scratching my blade, my Kershaw Shuffle has so many white marks on it you might think it’s a zebra! I got myself a simple strop as well from Tandy, it did make the blade ‘straighten’ out, and I’ll probably apply some compound on it soon. It will do for now, as I’m waiting on Stropman to get better so I can get one of his strops.

I think you will appreciate the UF rods and good lighting and magnification are a big help too.

I just got my UF and Jewlers loupe (30x,60x) and I like both of them, even though they feel too good for me. I’m still learning what to look for on the blade, so whenever I finish sharpening, I can’t seem to find a burr (which I believe means that I balanced out the sharpening to reach the apex.) The UF stones are nice, I tried the corner and then the flats, and I think that next time I’ll use just the flats, it did give the shuffle a mirror finish, and cut the tissue paper a little better than yesterday!

I don't have much experience in knife sharpening so I acknowledge that others may scoff at this method.

If it works it works, and it’s good to search for the apex, so you know you’re sharpening what you need to.

 

[Mr.SATism]

I’ve been practicing with my UF stones recently and using the sharpie trick as well, and to say I am impressed is an understatement! I am now able to tear free hanging tissue paper! I’m probably going to return to using the stand because the angles on the right side are not the same as the left, and that is because when I sharpen towards myself on that side, I can’t match the angle on the other side... On the upside, I do get a mirror polish on my kershaw! (On one side only...) An hour of practice really does make a difference (even cleaning with BKF is good practice).

I forgot to mention this in my first post, but if any new sharpeners are seeing this, get yourself a couple of packs of band aids, and TAKE YOUR TIME. If you have an hour to practice, you have an hour to take your time, and will give yourself better results (and a lot less cuts )

 

[aleforme]

I’ve been practicing with my UF stones recently and using the sharpie trick as well, and to say I am impressed is an understatement! I am now able to tear free hanging tissue paper! I’m probably going to return to using the stand because the angles on the right side are not the same as the left, and that is because when I sharpen towards myself on that side, I can’t match the angle on the other side... On the upside, I do get a mirror polish on my kershaw! (On one side only...) An hour of practice really does make a difference (even cleaning with BKF is good practice).

I forgot to mention this in my first post, but if any new sharpeners are seeing this, get yourself a couple of packs of band aids, and TAKE YOUR TIME. If you have an hour to practice, you have an hour to take your time, and will give yourself better results (and a lot less cuts )

I wish Spyderco would take a stone like their double stuff and add a handle of some sort similar to the DMT DiaFolds. Holding the Spyderco rods in your hand can be a little dangerous as you and likely may others (myself included) have found out.

That being said, you should check out the DMT DiaFolds. The Coarse/Fine double sided DiaFold is a great diamond stone and is a great way to set up for the Syederco ceramics. Especially if you have a really dull edge. I've been trying one out for a couple weeks and have been really impressed. Works great for pocket knives and super handy for times I don't want to get my bench stones out. And, they are price pretty cheap. I have the Coarse/Fine now and a Exrta Fine/Extra Extra fine on the way.

 

[Mr.SATism]

I wish Spyderco would take a stone like their double stuff and add a handle of some sort similar to the DMT DiaFolds. Holding the Spyderco rods in your hand can be a little dangerous as you and likely may others (myself included) have found out.

That being said, you should check out the DMT DiaFolds. The Coarse/Fine double sided DiaFold is a great diamond stone and is a great way to set up for the Syederco ceramics. Especially if you have a really dull edge. I've been trying one out for a couple weeks and have been really impressed. Works great for pocket knives and super handy for times I don't want to get my bench stones out. And, they are price pretty cheap. I have the Coarse/Fine now and a Exrta Fine/Extra Extra fine on the way.

I think the reason they don’t do a folding Stone is because the sharpmaker is super simple haha. But in all seriousness, I wish I had the ability to make a plastic handle for the rods, because freehanding it is REALLY fun.
I have taken a look at the DMT Diafolds, and they do seem appealing, however I already have my eyes on some Congress Tools Moldmasters triangle rods. IMO both of them will work well for reprofiling ‘super steels’. I am not sure that you should pick up the EF/EEF as from what I’ve seen, they are not as effective and have a long break in period.

 

[aleforme]

I think the reason they don’t do a folding Stone is because the sharpmaker is super simple haha. But in all seriousness, I wish I had the ability to make a plastic handle for the rods, because freehanding it is REALLY fun.
I have taken a look at the DMT Diafolds, and they do seem appealing, however I already have my eyes on some Congress Tools Moldmasters triangle rods. IMO both of them will work well for reprofiling ‘super steels’. I am not sure that you should pick up the EF/EEF as from what I’ve seen, they are not as effective and have a long break in period.

Agree with the break in needed. I have the Extra Fine DiaSharp bench stone and it definitely took some break in time but I can get some great results now. When I'm just using Diamonds it's usually my stone. I get a really nice usable edge.

 

[bgentry]

You might be surprised what you can do with just the Sharpmaker medium (grey) triangle rods. For a lot of every day cutting tasks, the edge that comes from the grey rods seems better for me. Can you produce a hair shaving edge from just the greys? If not, definitely work on it. If you're already there, see what you can do with a light touch to finish. I'm a BIG fan of the edge from this stone/rod. ...and a big fan of the SharpMaker in general.

Brian.

 

[Lapedog]

So I recently bought myself a Spyderco sharpmaker and have been practicing my sharpening on my Kershaw shuffle 2 (8crmov13 is VERY easy to sharpen,) and I noticed certain things not only about the sharpmaker, but myself and the knife. Any opinions/recommendations/constructive criticisms are always welcome!

1. The stones for the sharpmaker are AMAZING!- I managed to get this knife so sharp that for the first time tonight I got to tear a piece of tissue paper! That is so cool! I can't wait to push this edge further!

2. I am apparently good at freehanding- Don't get me wrong, I am giving the shuffle the quick and dirty because I can only practice an hour a day. But after not being satisfied with how the edge seems uneven (see point 3), I took the rods in my hand and stroke it the correct amount of times on the edges and knicked myself a couple of times haha. When I was finished, I took it to a piece of tissue (see point 1). I can thank Michael Christy for the method that I used tonight, even though I still have no idea what I'm looking for (yes I will try the sharpie method soon)

3. I think my knife might be ground unevenly?- After I finished sharpening my knife every time, I tried to push cut it (or drop cut it? when you take a single piece of the edge and run it down a piece of paper) and every time like clockwork, the knife always moves to the right instead of consistently down. I originally thought that I was messing up so I tried doing more strokes on either side to test it, but it just passed the burr from one side to the other. I do believe I will need to reprofile this knife with something coarse.

4. I don't know whether to trust Spyderco's angles- This is probably an irrational fear, but I do wonder about when the rods fit into the base, whether they are supposed to have some wiggle room. This is probably nothing, and I can fix it by inserting some paper inside so it won't wiggle

Conclusion- You can't go wrong with the sharpmaker. Please do not misunderstand that. For the money that you are paying, it is giving you some of Spyderco's finest ceramic stones. That being said, I wonder what would've happened if I bought a Spyderco double-stuff knowing I like free handing so much. I do have a jeweler's loupe and 2 UF rods coming in, and I am wondering about whether or not to send the UF rods back and order a UF stone instead of the rod. Oh well, it's late now, and I believe it's time to go and see if the Bar Keeper is truly my Friend haha.

The thing about the sharpmaker is that if you put the stones in the angled jig you are usually giving the knife a micro bevel. Most knives don’t come woth either exactly 30 degree or 40 degree edges and even if they did I find it very hard to be sure I am holding the blade perfectly vertical.

I also have taken to using my sharpmaker rods free hand. I use them like a crock stick, knife in one ha d, rod in the other. Then I just lay the edge flat on the stone so that way I am matching the angle. It takes some practice. Most would be better served by freehanding through putting the stones in the flat cut out in the bottom of the sharpmaker and using the system like a bench stone.

 

[D2FB]

I wish Spyderco would take a stone like their double stuff and add a handle of some sort similar to the DMT DiaFolds. Holding the Spyderco rods in your hand can be a little dangerous as you and likely may others (myself included) have found out.

That being said, you should check out the DMT DiaFolds. The Coarse/Fine double sided DiaFold is a great diamond stone and is a great way to set up for the Syederco ceramics. Especially if you have a really dull edge. I've been trying one out for a couple weeks and have been really impressed. Works great for pocket knives and super handy for times I don't want to get my bench stones out. And, they are price pretty cheap. I have the Coarse/Fine now and a Exrta Fine/Extra Extra fine on the way.

I have not read thread closely but re holding rods by hand, an option is using the underside of the spyderco sharpmaker base to hold the rods and use similar to flat stone

 

[maximus83]

OP, congrats on your learnings on Sharpmaker, it's a great tool and you can sharpen a LOT of different kinds of blades with it. Mostly do freehand sharpening now, but I do prefer Sharpmaker for specialty jobs that it makes really easy (stuff like serrations, scissors, and recurves), and also for one-off bevel reprofiling jobs if I'm struggling to get the bevel set on freehand (did one of those just this last week, current post about it here in Maintenance). And sometimes, in all honesty, I just use SM for the heck of it to sharpen a blade--because it's fun! Some really accomplished freehand sharpeners--Cliff Stamp is one example--still use Sharpmaker even though they don't necessarily depend on it.

A few ideas to consider for things I've learned with it:

• Find the 4-part series on YT with Sal Glesser showing how to use SM. You will learn a ton in this video.
• From the video, learn to use SM to sharpen specialty blades: scissors, serrations, chisel grinds, etc.
• As Lapedog said: you can use those stones freehand too. I do that sometimes when using the UF ceramic with small knives like folders.
• Consider some of the add-on stones to enhance your sharpen options. My favorites: Spyderco Ultrafine ceramic, Spyderco diamond or CBN rods, Congress Tools Moldmaster Sic stones.

 

[Mr.SATism]

You might be surprised what you can do with just the Sharpmaker medium (grey) triangle rods. For a lot of every day cutting tasks, the edge that comes from the grey rods seems better for me. Can you produce a hair shaving edge from just the greys? If not, definitely work on it. If you're already there, see what you can do with a light touch to finish. I'm a BIG fan of the edge from this stone/rod. ...and a big fan of the SharpMaker in general.

Brian.

I definitely can get a hair shaving edge from the grey rods. What I seem to notice is that 1. I need to work on my angle maintenance, because I think that I sharpen each side at different angles, enough to where my mirror polishes off the UF is off. and 2. Although I can shave off the grey stone, when I move to the 'finer' stones, I can't seem to shave as easily, but it will still cut very well. The solution to both is probably using the sharpie trick.

I have not read thread closely but re holding rods by hand, an option is using the underside of the spyderco sharpmaker base to hold the rods and use similar to flat stone

Yes I have tried that for a quick second, but I need some shelf liners to make it not shift around when I'm working on it

A few ideas to consider for things I've learned with it:

• Find the 4-part series on YT with Sal Glesser showing how to use SM. You will learn a ton in this video.
• From the video, learn to use SM to sharpen specialty blades: scissors, serrations, chisel grinds, etc.
• As Lapedog said: you can use those stones freehand too. I do that sometimes when using the UF ceramic with small knives like folders.
• Consider some of the add-on stones to enhance your sharpen options. My favorites: Spyderco Ultrafine ceramic, Spyderco diamond or CBN rods, Congress Tools Moldmaster Sic stones.

Thank you so much for your testing, it certainly has helped me out! I have watched Sal's videos and feel inspired to be as good as him at sharpening. I'll probably put freehanding off for a little bit because I want to get more consistent angles first. And the UF are already doing amazing, and moldmasters will probably will come to my place soon

 

[bgentry]

I definitely can get a hair shaving edge from the grey rods. What I seem to notice is that 1. I need to work on my angle maintenance, because I think that I sharpen each side at different angles, enough to where my mirror polishes off the UF is off.

I'm guessing that your diagnosis of the problem is incorrect. I'm not sure what you're seeing, but if it's different bevel widths on each side of the blade (that are being polished by the UF rods), then I'm guessing your blade is ground asymmetrically. This is actually very common. Because most blades are ground in by hand, it's normal for one side to be at a different angle than the other. Or to be ground "deeper" into the blade stock. Once you figure out this concept, most knives will look flawed to you. This is one reason that enthusiasts pay big bucks for custom blades. Because these customers expect the blade grind to be much closer to perfection than a regular old production blade. I could be wrong. If you can describe your symptoms, or post a picture of them, it would help us to help you diagnose the issue.

2. Although I can shave off the grey stone, when I move to the 'finer' stones, I can't seem to shave as easily, but it will still cut very well. The solution to both is probably using the sharpie trick.

I think you're rounding off the edge. Again, I might be wrong. A very careful use of the spyderco fine rods should produce an edge that mows hair off of your arm with less tugging than the edge formed by the spyderco mediums. If it shaves more roughly, or not at all, it implies that you have blunted the edge.

You might try observing your strokes on the sharpmaker deliberately from above. This way you can see the gap between the blade and the rod and you can see if the blade is wobbling back and forth with respect to the rods. The sharpmaker motion is a deceptively complex one. After you've spent a few hours with the SM, you will internalize the motion and it will become easy. But to start with, it's "hard" because there are at least three motions happening at once:

1. Keeping the blade straight up and down with respect to the rod and pulling it down the rod.
2. Moving the blade backwards towards you, so that the rod contacts the entire length of the edge.
3. In the curved part of the blade, moving the handle upward to make sure that the curved part stays in contact with the rod.

This last piece is hard to describe, but it's exactly the same thing as I've discussed in The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening, secret #3. You might want to read the rest of that article as well so that the 3rd secret has some context.

Brian.

 

[Mr.SATism]

I'm guessing that your diagnosis of the problem is incorrect. I'm not sure what you're seeing, but if it's different bevel widths on each side of the blade (that are being polished by the UF rods), then I'm guessing your blade is ground asymmetrically. This is actually very common. Because most blades are ground in by hand, it's normal for one side to be at a different angle than the other. Or to be ground "deeper" into the blade stock. Once you figure out this concept, most knives will look flawed to you. This is one reason that enthusiasts pay big bucks for custom blades. Because these customers expect the blade grind to be much closer to perfection than a regular old production blade. I could be wrong. If you can describe your symptoms, or post a picture of them, it would help us to help you diagnose the issue.



I think you're rounding off the edge. Again, I might be wrong. A very careful use of the spyderco fine rods should produce an edge that mows hair off of your arm with less tugging than the edge formed by the spyderco mediums. If it shaves more roughly, or not at all, it implies that you have blunted the edge.

You might try observing your strokes on the sharpmaker deliberately from above. This way you can see the gap between the blade and the rod and you can see if the blade is wobbling back and forth with respect to the rods. The sharpmaker motion is a deceptively complex one. After you've spent a few hours with the SM, you will internalize the motion and it will become easy. But to start with, it's "hard" because there are at least three motions happening at once:

1. Keeping the blade straight up and down with respect to the rod and pulling it down the rod.
2. Moving the blade backwards towards you, so that the rod contacts the entire length of the edge.
3. In the curved part of the blade, moving the handle upward to make sure that the curved part stays in contact with the rod.

This last piece is hard to describe, but it's exactly the same thing as I've discussed in The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening, secret #3. You might want to read the rest of that article as well so that the 3rd secret has some context.

Brian.

https://imgur.com/gallery/vHW0Z
1. I think we're both right about the uneven angles, but blame different people on who messed up the angle haha. But I'll try and provide some more context into what I'm seeing after getting a mirror polish (the pictures are of when I went back to the grey stones, let me know if you want me to redo the sharpening the same way all the way up to the UF).
The mirror polish is clean and present all throughout the edge on the left side (I sharpen righty with crock stick method away), and the edge on the other side had a mirror polish on 20% of the knife. I never really heard about blunting the knife edge, but I will definitely pay more attention to how much pressure I put in my strokes

2. I'm not sure if I've mentioned this before, but for the most part I have been sitting down with the sharpmaker at chest level. I will definitely return to standing above it, because that truly gave me the most consistent results with the plastic holder.

3. I have been secretly taking our small 'steak knives' (ikea pairing knives that I love to death) and crock-ing them on the medium and fine stones. I bought a pull through carbide sharpener when I started getting into knives (there is a story to that, and it's on another post here, not my proudest moment tbh,) and the only compliment that I can give it is that it sets a consistent angle, because after I crocked the knives quickly they became SUPREMELY better, very little of the problem as described in my #1

P.S. Thank you for linking the secrets, I searched for it once and I couldn't access your links, I should've just read a little further lol

 

[bgentry]

https://imgur.com/gallery/vHW0Z
1. I think we're both right about the uneven angles, but blame different people on who messed up the angle haha. But I'll try and provide some more context into what I'm seeing after getting a mirror polish (the pictures are of when I went back to the grey stones, let me know if you want me to redo the sharpening the same way all the way up to the UF).

Hmm. It sorta looks like you aren't touching the edge near the heel of the blade. But that could be a trick of the light. On the second side, I think I clearly see that the edge bevel is wider near the heel. That's not all that uncommon either. The heel is one of the worst areas in factory blades. They tend to have lots of geometry problems there.

I think you might be turning your tanto "middle point" into a rounded belly. If you want to keep the tanto shape with the sharp transition between the two planes, then you should sharpen that blade in two sections. Do one straight section, stopping at the transition point. Then do the other straight section. Again stopping (or starting) at the transition point.

I never really heard about blunting the knife edge, but I will definitely pay more attention to how much pressure I put in my strokes

Blunting might not be the perfect description. "Rounding off the edge" is the term that's use the most here. It's very easy to do this with a strop because of the soft substrate. But you can absolutely round off a sharp edge by having poor angle control also. I'm not sure if that's your issue or not.

and the only compliment that I can give it is that it sets a consistent angle, because after I crocked the knives quickly they became SUPREMELY better, very little of the problem as described in my #1

This implies that your SM technique is solid. ...or maybe it's just that you're having trouble with a blade with a thicker grind. The blade in the picture looks very thick. It's much harder to get a good edge on a thick blade. Thin blades are comparatively easy.

P.S. Thank you for linking the secrets, I searched for it once and I couldn't access your links, I should've just read a little further lol

It might be time for me to re-do that post. When they changed the forum software all of the internal links in that thread stopped working. Plus it's formatted goofy because the forum software wouldn't accept certain posts. Yeah, I think it's time to re-do that. Thanks for mentioning it!

Brian.