International Shipping - A Dilemma

SeppukuSamurai

SeppukuSamurai

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Hey guys,

I've found myself in a situation where I have a buyer that's interested in purchasing a knife from me outside of the U.S.A.

Currently, I will only accept said buyer's money if it's Friends and Family and they understand that I will not guarantee nor stand behind the product as I cannot afford to pay copious amounts of money for insurance on international packages and won't chance a seizure by Customs.

I'm always hesitant to even say such a thing as over time I've gravitated towards only using G&S and insuring everything over $300. It feels shady.

Am I being unnecessarily paranoid? Is there any recourse if the post/customs loses/seizes my package if I allow payment through G&S?

Thanks in advance.
 
I avoid this issue entirely by only agreeing to ship within the US when I have done sales. However, I haven't done as many transactions as you have here and maybe you have prior experiences that give you a greater comfort level with it? I've turned down buyers who are outside the US.

I don't like dealing friends and family and I don't feel comfortable shipping internationally. It sucks for knife knuts who live elsewhere, but it gives me peace of mind.
 
BilboBaggins said:
I avoid this issue entirely by only agreeing to ship within the US when I have done sales. However, I haven't done as many transactions as you have here and maybe you have prior experiences that give you a greater comfort level with it? I've turned down buyers who are outside the US.

I don't like dealing friends and family and I don't feel comfortable shipping internationally. It sucks for knife knuts who live elsewhere, but it gives me peace of mind.
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I have actually sold/shipped over a dozen knives internationally. I just sent a custom Dwaine Dwyer over to Australia F&F without a hitch. In fact, I've never had an issue at all. Ever.

My issue is that I hate having to ask someone to pay me with Friends and Family. I know what I'm asking them to do, not have any recourse if it comes up missing, and it feels wrong. I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

I'm interested to see if anyone has found a way to circumvent this issue? It's usually so costly to insure an international package that a good deal becomes a bad one when you tack on the fees.
 
Can you ask them to cover the additional costs of insurance? You could still do G&S but have it fully covered. I'm sure the insurance rates vary wildly depending on where it's going which obviously complicates a deal...

Also, good on you for being willing to work with our international knife brethren. :thumbsup:
 
BilboBaggins said:
Can you ask them to cover the additional costs of insurance? You could still do G&S but have it fully covered. I'm sure the insurance rates vary wildly depending on where it's going which obviously complicates a deal...

Also, good on you for being willing to work with our international knife brethren. :thumbsup:
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Last I checked it was pretty costly.

I'm hoping for someone with some experience dealing with PayPal over a seized package to chime in.

I don't think there are any other options other than F&F or the buyer paying for the additional costs.

It sucks.
 
I believe you can do a bank transfer(or wire transfer) and avoid the F&F problem-done neither. Either that or only deal with someone you feel will be good to their word & go G&S. Lastly they may be able to come up with a US address for shipping-it's a little grey but has worked for me. There really is no way to justify F&F. No matter what the reasons it still comes down to not paying PP a fee they deserve.
I use G&S, mail to US address, or skip the deal

International does add some risk to a transaction, no matter how much the buyers may try to downplay it.
 
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Hi dude, thanks for starting this conversation! This is a real problem for me as I live in Australia and have missed out on some sweet sweet knives because some sellers won't ship internationally.

I do understand people's concerns about risk, but I have had six knives shipped to me from BF members in the US, no problems on both our ends. I think most of the time they've just used USPS Priority (as do some of the big shippers in the States like BHQ). It comes with tracking, which is a big safety net for both of you. I don't think the insurance was too crazy, but I suppose it depends on the value of the knife. I wouldn't have a problem with paying a seller extra for the insurance. I've also never even considered blaming the buyer if a knife goes missing or gets seized (unless of course they didn't tape the package to buggery and back, and I just got an empty torn envelope in the mail).

I definitely wouldn't ever do F&F. You yourself acknowledge it's a bit yuk, and you're right.

I've only had trouble with two orders from overseas. The first, the order was over $1000AUD, so the courier held the package until I paid 10% GST/duty plus an "admin fee". The second time I had an Extrema Ratio NK3-K seized and confiscated by Customs as an illegal weapon, which I knew it might be but I still rolled the dice. The big no-nos for shipping to Australia are knives designed purely as weapons and concealables - trench knives, karambits, autos, AOs, daggers (ie double-edged), throwing knives and stars, martial arts weapons, sword canes, etc.

I'd make sure you have a clear conversation about what's expected and who assumes what risk. I think insurance and tracking is a MUST. Absolutely non-optional. You also insure it for the FULL VALUE. When I ship something expensive internationally, I also take photos at the post office of the package open showing the contents, then the package closed and taped up with the postage stuck on it, and the customs declaration, and of the receipt as well. I then email them to the buyer.

Another option is for your buyer to open an account with a mail forwarding service. You send it to a US address, then they assume all the risk. I used to use Shipito, until they went down the toilet. They're utter bastards now - avoid them like the plague. There are so many of these companies out there now. The seller can sign up in less than five minutes.

Again, thanks so much for discussing this.
 
SeppukuSamurai said:
My issue is that I hate having to ask someone to pay me with Friends and Family. I know what I'm asking them to do, not have any recourse if it comes up missing, and it feels wrong. I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
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IF you accept F&F, you also have no recourse in case the 'buyer' claims the transaction was illegal or files a claim with his bank/CC company. Paypal will just reverse the transaction and you're left with no money and no knife. Have a look at Ballstothewalls thread for this specific situation... So, never F&F!
 
Both parties need to understand the laws of the country you are shipping to, if the knife is legal it won't get seized, use USPS Registered, it is a bit spendy and slow but it is secure. F&F will really not protect you if the buyer has underpinned the transfer with a CC.

I have brought over 100 knives here from the Us with zero issues as I generally follow my own advice above. I am also grateful to the sellers who worked with me and (yes unlike too many) am never going to risk my reputation or ability to purchase what I want from overseas by screwing someone over.
 
I'm in Singapore, and any time there I make a high-value purchase or the other party (in the US) is concerned about international shipping, I utilize a forwarding service. My go-to is comgateway. I can have my package shipped to me for a reasonable price and it's less risky if the sender is unwilling to insure a high-value item and whatnot.

However, for packages I send out as a seller or trader, I rarely include insurance, even though I wish I could. The only way I can get insurance is to use DHL or Fedex, both of which will cost me north of $70. That's at least $50 more than regular shipping costs. The way I see it, spending $50+ on insurance for every package is going to end up costing me more than 1 knife in 100 going missing.
 
Wow, had no idea F&F was so shaky. Looks like there is officially never a reason to use it. Unless you're sending money to friends and family. Lol.

I'll just ask the buyer to cover the extra cost. No other way around it.

It stinks for international knife nuts as they have to pay considerably more but at least the opportunity is there I guess.

Thanks for all of the good info.
 
PayPal charges an additional 1.5% percent for international transactions using G&S also. I shipped multiple knives to Germany and France without trouble. Anything that weighs less than a pound is around $23-$25 US and I use goods and services.

I’ve had a few requests for making the value around $20 US, which is sketchy. Anything $20 and under, they don’t have to pay VAT tax
 
I have shipped internationally a few times from Canada and they have all arrived safely.I do insist on PayPal f&f in US currency,a shipping option that has tracking and is insurable(optional),charge exactly what shipping costs me,make to sure to include my and the buyer's shipping info inside the box, make sure the wrritten shipping label is clear and legible, all edges of the box as securely taped up and on several occasions even ziplock up the item and shipping info before even packing the box with packing peanuts.

I've even shipped items without tracking or insurance as long as the buyer understand it will take much longer and will not be trackable.

I consider once it ships,I have done my part but I will take a pic at the po as the clerk works,keep the carbon copy of the shipping label and receipt as proof of shipping.
 
It's one of those situations where it's not a problem until there's a problem. I've read threads on here where buyer absolved seller of shipping risk and when it came up missing outside the USA then that position dramatically changed.
In reality unless your getting funds from something like Western Union there is no risk free transaction for the seller. Your at risk for charge backs no matter how you use or misuse PayPal or any other funding source. You are more at risk for being scammed with no recourse in an international transaction. As far as USPS goes and insurance. Good luck with a claim outside the USA. Perhaps better to ship DHL or FedEx etx.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
It's one of those situations where it's not a problem until there's a problem. I've read threads on here where buyer absolved seller of shipping risk and when it came up missing outside the USA then that position dramatically changed.
In reality unless your getting funds from something like Western Union there is no risk free transaction for the seller. Your at risk for charge backs no matter how you use or misuse PayPal or any other funding source. You are more at risk for being scammed with no recourse in an international transaction. As far as USPS goes and insurance. Good luck with a claim outside the USA. Perhaps better to ship DHL or FedEx etx.
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I like Western Union for international, it’s so easy to send money in minutes these days. If a buyer is honest about assuming all risks, then there is no reason for them not to use Western Union.
 
Some of my international buyers do not want to use PayPal and request/demand to do a bank transfer.

This method is also easy and may take a few days depending on the banks and countries. The fees can be assessed and apportioned prior to the sale and included in the price where applicable.
 
annr said:
Some of my international buyers do not want to use PayPal and request/demand to do a bank transfer.

This method is also easy and may take a few days depending on the banks and countries. The fees can be assessed and apportioned prior to the sale and included in the price where applicable.
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Any which way that you analyze it, PayPal international is just a joke, as far as giving the seller any protection.
I also like bank transfers, as a very good alternative. It’s even easy to set up an account specifically for this purpose. It cuts the risk of your main account getting hacked.
 
My opinion is insurance is a waste of money. Never heard of anyone recouping their full losses on an insurance claim with the USPS they weasel out of it everytime. this is my opinion based on my observations not fact . International seems like it would be even worse. they would never accept responsibility for loss overseas. I would pass and wait for a CONUS buyer. I always decline international sales.
 
I've also done bank transfers before, and I didn't resent it or find it a hassle. Whatever I can do to get people to ship to me in Australia!
 
TOMBSTONE said:
It's one of those situations where it's not a problem until there's a problem. I've read threads on here where buyer absolved seller of shipping risk and when it came up missing outside the USA then that position dramatically changed.
In reality unless your getting funds from something like Western Union there is no risk free transaction for the seller. Your at risk for charge backs no matter how you use or misuse PayPal or any other funding source. You are more at risk for being scammed with no recourse in an international transaction. As far as USPS goes and insurance. Good luck with a claim outside the USA. Perhaps better to ship DHL or FedEx etx.
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Good point .. Chargebacks and "friendly fraud" ... Yes I'm definitely familiar! Paypal g&s won't protect you from it either. If I want to make sure I don't have any risk of them seizing the money back out of my account after they have the item, I will use a Walmart to Walmart money transfer and cash it in person. They have zero recourse then.
 
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