International trading: How warped can it get

philwar

philwar

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I buy a lot of knives and other stuff from individuals and businesses in the US. The majority of businesses and a sizable part of individuals do not wish to ship outside the US. I have no choice but to accept this, and it doesn't bother me anymore except when a unique opportunity presents itself, like a rare knife I've been looking for for a long time, I am the first potential bidder but I don't qualify because - for whatever reason - the seller has decided not to sell outside the US.
I've also offered and been offered knives in trade deals that were subsequently declined when the other party found out (I make it a point to inform them as quickly as possible) that I live in Europe. It's annoying, and sometimes downright aggrevating to be treated like a less than trustworthy party. Usually it's obviously nothing personal, but sometimes I'm dismissed like the worst offender you can find in the GB&U subforum.

So forgive me for having a memory.

An item I had for sale here was of interest to such a party, and he made a satisfactory offer. I declined, and gave him as my reason the fact he refused to do business with me before, and was quite impolite in his refusal. Before I did so I gave it some real thought. I told myself that this was a way to engender more trust on the other side. I told myself I shouldn't have taken the earlier refusal personally. I also told myself that a deal was a deal, and the money didn't care how it ended up in my Paypal account. But the way I had been snubbed, dismissed, still stuck in my throat somewhere, and so ended up refusing, selling the knife to someone else for the same money.

To be clear: I had no reason to distrust the potential buyer, I am sure he buys and sells in good faith. It was in fact purely personal. And I can live with the unwillingness of sellers to go to the extra trouble of shipping internationally (however small it may be). But if you choose not to sell to me out of some misplaced sense of principle ("This item will stay in the CONUS.") and then have no compunction to buy from me, don't be surprised when I will not sell to you. I'm never that hard up, and I'll gladly remind you of your own principles. :D
I guess I'm only human after all. :nonchalance:

Your thoughts are appreciated. I will not comment on the identy of the party involved.
 
My view:

1. I understand that you took the initial refusal personally (I would have too, especially if there was rudeness involved). But I also understand that we in the US understand our domestic mail routine pretty well but might be put off by our ignorance (or at least my ignorance) of international customs procedures that might raise the risk of loss or confiscation.

2. Business is business, so despite your personal feelings, you might have done yourself an economic disservice by declining to do business with the person who offended you. I might have held my nose and taken the money (or maybe not, depending on how rude the person was the first time around).

3. You sold for the same price, so "no harm, no foul".
 
General discussion should not be used for this type of thread.

Read the rules and follow them.

As far as your point. I have shipped knives worth thousands of dollars all over the world without an issue.
 
Bastid said:
General discussion should not be used for this type of thread.

Read the rules and follow them.

As far as your point. I have shipped knives worth thousands of dollars all over the world without an issue.
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I have no idea why you moved this thread here. There is no feedback, no one is called good or bad, or even ugly. No one besides myself is mentioned in any way. I described a small history and asked fellow members what they think of my choices, perhaps how they would have done it.
 
So you think General KNIFE discussion is the pace for this? There are simple clear rules posted in General. It is for knife discussion.

Should not be hard for a reasonable person to understand.

From your smartass response in PM to the warning you now have an infraction for sass that will not expire.
 
My experience here on BF is completely different to yours.........

I live in Cape Town, South africa and in the past 3 years that I have been a BF member I have purchased MANY knives from forum members here and on other knife forums.
I can count on one hand the number of times that I have been refused a sale because of International shipping. Indeed in the past many forumites have sold popular knives to me knowing that in a hour or so they would be able to complete a CONUS sale but they were happy to do business with me.

Why is it then that you don't seem to have the same experience? You have excellent feedback from some very well respected members of BF.
 
Good grief, this subject is brought up WAY to often.
May as well make a sticky about CONUS sales, so people can have a place to vent.
And put the PP fee threads with it:p
 
I owned a business that sold online and eBay for about five years. Almost all of the "nightmare" transactions were international. The shipping and customs and PayPal rules put the seller at risk.
 
I have to agree with you on this one. I think that so long as you are up front with the seller, there should be absolutely no issue. In fact from now on I will say in all my posting, will ship to europe if buyer wants.
 
Alfaholic said:
Why is it then that you don't seem to have the same experience? You have excellent feedback from some very well respected members of BF.
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No idea. I respond to a 'for sale' post, tell them I'm from Holland and a majority declines the sale.
I know for a fact (and this is an old debate I never intended to revive) that many international members have similar experiences. But as I said, this is not the reason for this thread. In threads where this subject comes up, many US-members freely 'admit' they don't wish to sell outside the US, and a large part of sales posts say so up front as well. It's the other half where we first have to ask, to get rejected half the time again. :( And that is STILL not the reason I brought this up.

BTW: I value my feedback enormously and will do everything to keep it at 100% positive. I also NEVER had anything gone missing, out of what must be at least 150 Holland-bound shipments.
 
Try living in Hong Kong and having people ship to you.
I've even had custom makers turn down commissions based on my location.
My best was when I was called a 'filthy Chink' by an American seller. The fact that I'm white and English didn't seem to make a difference.
 
did have this ones..

but seller, was upfront and the ad said... conus only.

i'm very fortunate that some off my US friend want to play post office for me. because i really wanted that knife
and i give theme now most off the time, a phone number and a courier account number, and the parcel will be picked up with one call
all they have to do is print the freight bill i send theme ( for customs )

but i hate to ask my friends for these favors all the time.
so i ask the seller first. if he has a problem with the shipping i wil arrange, and if i can help him if he finds it to much hassle , or work to fill out the freight bill,
witch made him decide to ship only conus.

but to be honist,
i hear off so many scammers... i really don't want to buy anymore from just some one..
i stick with the better known knife traders and web shops.
or buy localy from europeen custom makers
 
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I live in California, and I cannot buy 50% of the guns on Gun Broker dot com because they do not ship to CA. So, I find it elsewhere. Frustrating, yes. In fact, I was at the Simi Valley Parade Saturday, and I shouted out to our Congressman, Elton Gallegly......... Gun Owner's rights Congressman! Second Ammendment Rights Congressman! He acted like he did not hear me, but oh well. I do not take this personal. Other states do not want to deal with the crap of red tape that CA requires. So, it is not warped, it is only deal making.
 
i do not sell or buy outside of the US cause both of my first occasions were less than enjoyable experiences. havent had a problem since.
 
I have had fairly good experiences here with people selling outside the US. I have asked people that said CONUS only and been knocked back but I've had people willing to ship out side the US too.
I have had a few people try to place what I would call out of order demands on a deal but I just walked away from those, no harm done. I do have to be honest and say that the general unwillingnes to deal with international members is largly why I don't sell anything on this site my self. Fortunately perhaps, selling/trading is not a large part of my hobby or interest in knives any way.
 
Haze said:
I have had fairly good experiences here with people selling outside the US. I have asked people that said CONUS only and been knocked back but I've had people willing to ship out side the US too.
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I know, just to be clear again, this was not what this thread was about. It seems many posters mistook my intent.

I have had a few people try to place what I would call out of order demands on a deal but I just walked away from those, no harm done. I do have to be honest and say that the general unwillingnes to deal with international members is largly why I don't sell anything on this site my self. Fortunately perhaps, selling/trading is not a large part of my hobby or interest in knives any way.
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Trading for me varies, sometimes it's an almost daily activity, sometimes nothing for weeks or even months. But my real question was basically, was it strange of me to refuse to trade with a person who had refused to trade with me before (and did so in a nast way)?
 
I see that as totally fair play my self, there are different ways to go about things but your refusal to sell/trade on those grounds was just and fair IMO.

philwar said:
I know, just to be clear again, this was not what this thread was about. It seems many posters mistook my intent.


Trading for me varies, sometimes it's an almost daily activity, sometimes nothing for weeks or even months. But my real question was basically, was it strange of me to refuse to trade with a person who had refused to trade with me before (and did so in a nast way)?
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If this character was rude to you, simply because you live outside the US, then you have every right to take offence. If he then has the nerve to try and buy off you then I absolutely agree with your position. Principle.

Everybody has the right to restrict where they sell to but not to hand out boorish invective to prospective buyers just because of where they live. Basic manners.

I've been turned down because of being European but never, I'm happy to say, rudely or unpleasantly. Sometimes this is due to local post-office misinformation or officials making life hard for those sending foreign packages. People have told me their local P.O. has refused to send knives as "they are banned in all European countries" etc. I've done many deals and trades and the vast majority have been pleasing and faultless-on both sides. Some forum members have very kindly offered to get me knives, this is deeply appreciated but I don't wish to trouble people.
 
willgoy said:
Some forum members have very kindly offered to get me knives, this is deeply appreciated but I don't wish to trouble people.
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Same here. I have neglected to say that, wether they chose to trade with me or not, the vast majority of BF members are polite and friendly, and I too have received such offers. I am still grateful to those people. :thumbup:
 
My situation is different, of course, so no one has refused go deal with me, but there are a few people who who were gratuitously rude to me in the past. I avoid having anything to do with them.

If someone had turned down a business deal because of where I am or who I am, I would never deal with them after that, no matter how polite they were. If my money is no good, then my knives are no good, also (and vice versa).
 
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