Internet Influence on Custom Knives?

[jjtjr]

I forgot... that Fisk brochure is awesome!!!

I hope it's not innappropiate to ask, but what would that $595 10" Carbon steel, Southern Bowie be worth nowadays? $2500?
__________________
-Nick-

Nick,

I would guess that your estimate is in the right ballpark.

Here's Jerry's JS Catalog. It has even better prices in it.

Jim Treacy

 

[T.K.C.]

I do not know where my collection would be with out the internet! Heck, it is forums like this that got me interested in custom knives in the first place. I have purchased the custom knives that I because of the internet.

I don't think I would have gotten to meet the knife makers that I have if it weren't for the internet. That has been so amazing and wonderful. The interaction with other collectors has been huge as well. It so wonderful to share experiences about a certain maker, or a type of knife. If it wasn't for the internet, I would NOT have developed an interest in fixed blades.


So, I feel that the internet has a POSITIVE affect on the custom knife market. I have learned a lot, and continue to learn a lot about knives on the internet!

 

[canineforge]

The quality of images came up on the best bowie thread and is a constant concern in showing, selling or viewing via on-line. It always will be. High quality photography is important. Plus, posted measurements and weights help. But, with that said, the internet will never replace handling a custom fixed blade or folder for true perspective of one's work. Obviously, when we become accustom to certain work, we have a better idea of what we are viewing on the screen, but this isn't the norm. So, we will never know the 'feel' of that certain fixed blade, the value on the 'pull open scale' on that specific folder, or the weight of either in hand until it is actually live in hand.

The main negative I can think of. Especially on one-of-a-kind customs. But, an important negative.

The rest seems to be full steam ahead!

- Joe

 

[Kevin Jones]

Internet gave and gives me entrance to "all" the makers (at least the ones with a website) in the world and made it possible for me to develop a taste (preferences). That said nothing can beat a show in regards to meeting people and most of all examining the knives. I learned more about fit and finish in a couple of days (when I started visiting shows) then in all my reading and watching at pics behind my computer.

Marcel

Well said Marcel. Particularly good point in bold.

I'm sure not trying to imply that the internet has not and will not continue to have a huge positive influence on the custom knife industry, just that as with most good things there's usually a price to be paid.

As we move more towards a "virtual" custom knife community and away from a "hands on" we could lose some of what we have gained over many years.

 

[Lorien]

I would imagine that buying over the internet could give the buyer an advantage of carefully and deliberately deciding they want to buy a knife before they do it, as opposed to acting on impulse at a show.

Those knife makers can be a charming group, and I'd imagine it would be a little easier to part with your money at a show, when one of them is smiling at you from across the table

There is no way that I am going to be able to 'handle' most of the knives I want before I buy one, since most of the guys whose work I might be able to get I may never get to see in real life anyway, and if I do make it to a show, there's no guarantee they'll have the knife I want, unless I prearrange a knife, which brings me right back to the internet, and trusting in the maker's abilities and aesthetic to provide what I'm looking for.

The internet is nothing but good for custom knives, and I really don't see any downside, now that I've thought about it for a bit.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Lorien I realize that some such as yourself are not in a position to attend many (if any) shows and the internet offers exposure to the custom knife world that they would not enjoy otherwise. However IMO, until one has actually handled and examined custom knives they are not even in a position to know what they don't know.

There's no doubt much to be learned on the internet about custom knives and many other things, however it's rarely a substitute for hands on practical experience.

 

[Lorien]

Lorien I realize that some such as yourself are not in a position to attend many (if any) shows and the internet offers exposure to the custom knife world that they would not enjoy otherwise. However IMO, until one has actually handled and examined custom knives they are not even in a position to know what they don't know.

There's no doubt much to be learned on the internet about custom knives and many other things, however it's rarely a substitute for hands on practical experience.

Kevin, while I agree with what you've said here, I do feel inclined to point out that I personally have hands on experience, at least with the knives I have on hand.

Of them, I've designed 5 down to the last detail, (single biggest learning experience thus far) had three built to a rough idea of what I wanted, (custom, by definition) picked one or two prefab from makers here on the internet, and purchased several more second hand using the internet- in particular the classifieds here on Bladeforums. That's probably a couple dozen I have in my possession, none of which are junk. Until I make my own, that is But I'll keep it too!

I don't want to part with any of them. Through whichever media I chose them, they are all still the right decisions for me, some simply because of unbeatable value, some which fulfill my inner desire in what I want that knife to be, to me. In a number of cases, I had to risk trusting the knife maker, and in every instance the maker came through beyond my expectations.

Additionally, because the internet allows one to research a maker and determine their reputation, one can find a maker who represents the approach that fits one the most, and avoid the ones who will take advantage. It takes a lot of time and research, but the info available now has never before been so easy to access. If there is any sort of red flag around any maker's name, they are easy to avoid.

As an accumulator of knives, I can practice my hobby and interest on my own terms, without having to know who's who or caring about who is drawing the biggest crowd. I do it for my own interest, and if it weren't for the internet, I believe that my choices would be extremely limited.

But no man is an island, and I believe that the true value of going to shows is the community aspect, which the internet cannot reproduce. That is real intrinsic value, and I hope that custom knife production and shows which promote this grow and become more commonplace and accessible to more people.

 

[Erik Fritz]

The Internet has been an unbelievable resource for me. with only four years of knifemakeing i have learned alot from the internet to cut my learning curve down. It has also allowed me to meet collectors and makers alike and build a type of relationship with them before i actually got to meet them in person. case in point Kevin i met online and the got to meet him at reno 2 years ago and then again this year at blade and Reno where i got the opportunity to listen to his presentation. Keith at josh's and STeven as well not to mention the makers like Jerry Fisk Nick Wheeler Lin Rhea etc. etc. it has opened up doors for younger makers to get their name out in a shorter time frame.

 

[jdm61]

It is funny seeing those old brochures. If I read it correctly, the Guild still has the requirement that you show them a brochure or catalog when applying for probationary member status. I wonder how many knifemakers still have one?

 

[Will Leavitt]

Here's my opinions on the internet influence on custom knives. As a maker, the ability to get answers and share information on techniques, design and materials is beyond invaluable. I'm no longer in the vacuumn I used to live in. Case in point, every single guy in the blacksmith group has a cable damascus blade and they all look the same. They were all taught by one maker. Not that that's a bad thing but there's no variation in theme, design or technique. They only know one way to make knives.

My teacher brings a lot of the spiritual side of bladesmithing to me and one of them stays in my head and I pass it on. We (makers) create knives because somewhere, someone needs that knife. We just have to meet them. The internet allows me to meet a lot more people without having to go to gun and knife shows and knife shows.

 

[RogerP]

Lorien makes a good point - in what ways is the internet bad for the custom knife industry?

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin, while I agree with what you've said here, I do feel inclined to point out that I personally have hands on experience, at least with the knives I have on hand.

Of them, I've designed 5 down to the last detail, (single biggest learning experience thus far) had three built to a rough idea of what I wanted, (custom, by definition) picked one or two prefab from makers here on the internet, and purchased several more second hand using the internet- in particular the classifieds here on Bladeforums. That's probably a couple dozen I have in my possession, none of which are junk. Until I make my own, that is But I'll keep it too!

I don't want to part with any of them. Through whichever media I chose them, they are all still the right decisions for me, some simply because of unbeatable value, some which fulfill my inner desire in what I want that knife to be, to me. In a number of cases, I had to risk trusting the knife maker, and in every instance the maker came through beyond my expectations.

Additionally, because the internet allows one to research a maker and determine their reputation, one can find a maker who represents the approach that fits one the most, and avoid the ones who will take advantage. It takes a lot of time and research, but the info available now has never before been so easy to access. If there is any sort of red flag around any maker's name, they are easy to avoid.

As an accumulator of knives, I can practice my hobby and interest on my own terms, without having to know who's who or caring about who is drawing the biggest crowd. I do it for my own interest, and if it weren't for the internet, I believe that my choices would be extremely limited.

But no man is an island, and I believe that the true value of going to shows is the community aspect, which the internet cannot reproduce. That is real intrinsic value, and I hope that custom knife production and shows which promote this grow and become more commonplace and accessible to more people.

I never said shows was the only place one could handle and examine knives, however it’s probably the best place as you are exposed to hundreds of custom knives by dozens of different makers at one location.

Limiting your hands on experience to only the knives you own really wouldn’t give many collectors much exposure. For example, a collector who only had knives from the very best makers would be less familiar with bad execution, ergonomics/design flaws and the mistakes some makers are making. And one who only collectected forged knives wouldn’t have the knowledge of stockremoval knives and folders unless they became familiar with them by physically examining them at shows.

On the flip side, if someone only owned poor knives they obviously wouldn’t know what to expect from a good quality custom knife.

Glad to hear you do own custom knives. You have stated in past post that you were not a collector.

 

[Kevin Jones]

The Internet has been an unbelievable resource for me. with only four years of knifemakeing i have learned alot from the internet to cut my learning curve down. It has also allowed me to meet collectors and makers alike and build a type of relationship with them before i actually got to meet them in person. case in point Kevin i met online and the got to meet him at reno 2 years ago and then again this year at blade and Reno where i got the opportunity to listen to his presentation. Keith at josh's and STeven as well not to mention the makers like Jerry Fisk Nick Wheeler Lin Rhea etc. etc. it has opened up doors for younger makers to get their name out in a shorter time frame.

Hi Erik. I enjoyed meeting you and seeing the quality of your knives progress each time I have examined them.

If you and I only had internet exposure we both would have missed out.

Lorien makes a good point - in what ways is the internet bad for the custom knife industry?

Roger

I haven't said the internet is bad, just that IMO as we move more and more towards a "virtual" custom knife community and away from a "hands on" it could have negative affects on the community.

 

[RogerP]

I haven't said the internet is bad, just that IMO as we move more and more towards a "virtual" custom knife community and away from a "hands on" it could have negative affects on the community.

I didn't say or suggest that you HAD said the internet is bad. My question wasn't directed specifically toward you, but to the thread participants in general.

But since you have responded, I don't know that there is a net move towards a virtual commnity and away from hands on experience. In fact, I'm not at all sure that in the "old days" the majority of purchases were made by attending shows. Back then, the vrtual knife world was the print media and a good many purchases were made by seeing an ad or a story on a particular maker, writing and requesting his brochure, then placing an order for future delivery. That's how I made easily the first dozen or so purchases when I started out.

While it is true that today some will forego the expense of attending a show in favour of an on-line purchase, it is also true that a great many will discover and foster an interest in custom knives through the internet in the first place - THEN develop enough interest to go out and attend a show. Reading Marcel's post in its totality, that's certainly what I take to have been his experience.

I don't pretend to have statistics on this point and I doubt anyone has - and for that reason I question categorical pronouncements based solely on one individual's perception, even if it is an informed perception.

One more MAJOR positive impact of the internet is access to information by newer makers and the resulting rapidity with which they can improve their skill sets. Got a problem in the shop that you can't work through? Well, you don't have to make a trip to the shop of a more experienced maker, or call him for the twentieth time in a week and hope you aren't wearing out his patience - you just post your question on an open forum and get instantaneous feedback from about a dozen makers. These answers not only help the person who asked, but the great many who read the responses, and those in the future who search the archives. Some types of "hands on" information can be effectively communicated through the internet.

If anyone has any insight into the negative impact of the internet on the custom knife industry, I'm all ears. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that there is no such negative effect - I just haven't yet grasped what it might be.

Roger

 

[Lorien]

Limiting your hands on experience to only the knives you own really wouldn’t give many collectors much exposure. For example, a collector who only had knives from the very best makers would be less familiar with bad execution, ergonomics/design flaws and the mistakes some makers are making. And one who only collectected forged knives wouldn’t have the knowledge of stockremoval knives and folders unless they became familiar with them by physically examining them at shows.

On the flip side, if someone only owned poor knives they obviously wouldn’t know what to expect from a good quality custom knife.

Glad to hear you do own custom knives. You have stated in past post that you were not a collector.

Kevin, I vacillate over the classification of Collector to describe myself. I've never collected much of anything, except when I was a kid, when I collected knives. Ugh, identity crisis!

Here's another thought; maybe to best way to get hands on experience is to meet Collectors who are friendly and willing to share their collections with those who want to handle a bunch of knives and learn from them. What better way to meet them than over the internet?

For example, one new internet friend of mine often sends me hi rez pictures of knives I'd probably never see otherwise. He helps stoke my fire and gives me the gift of education. You can bet that if I ever find myself in his neck of the woods, that I'll look him up and maybe handle a few knives. The only place our social circles overlap is here in cyberspace, and yet this person's effect on my education and interest is tangible. I actually know a number of people in here in a similar way- enthusiasts, Collectors and makers. I have 'friends' who I've never even communicated with, but who obviously picked up what I was putting down at some point, who offered their friendship to me with a click of the button.

Unlike the real world, social standing, wealth and status don't stand between people in here, necessarily. We are all here due to a common interest and are bound to one another by it in some fashion. It's a Brave New world!

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin, I vacillate over the classification of Collector to describe myself. I've never collected much of anything, except when I was a kid, when I collected knives. Ugh, identity crisis!

Here's another thought; maybe to best way to get hands on experience is to meet Collectors who are friendly and willing to share their collections with those who want to handle a bunch of knives and learn from them. What better way to meet them than over the internet?

For example, one new internet friend of mine often sends me hi rez pictures of knives I'd probably never see otherwise. He helps stoke my fire and gives me the gift of education. You can bet that if I ever find myself in his neck of the woods, that I'll look him up and maybe handle a few knives. The only place our social circles overlap is here in cyberspace, and yet this person's effect on my education and interest is tangible. I actually know a number of people in here in a similar way- enthusiasts, Collectors and makers. I have 'friends' who I've never even communicated with, but who obviously picked up what I was putting down at some point, who offered their friendship to me with a click of the button.

Unlike the real world, social standing, wealth and status don't stand between people in here, necessarily. We are all here due to a common interest and are bound to one another by it in some fashion. It's a Brave New world!

Whether you like it or not :grumpy:; if you collect stuff, you're a collector.

I don't disagree. Thanks for your participation here, as you kindled some good discussion. :thumbup:

 

[Lorien]

Whether you like it or not :grumpy:; if you collect stuff, you're a collector.

Arrrggh...must...resist...

 

[jdm61]

Arrrggh...must...resist...

No Lorien.......we can just start calling the guys who don't keep the knives that they buy "Flippers"

 

[Kevin Jones]

It is funny seeing those old brochures. If I read it correctly, the Guild still has the requirement that you show them a brochure or catalog when applying for probationary member status. I wonder how many knifemakers still have one?

I'm sure some makers still have old brochures left over.
Wouldn't that make an interesting thread?

Here's a few more Fisk.

 

[2knife]

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