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DylanBaklor

Joined
Oct 9, 2015
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14
Howdy all,

My name is Dylan Baklor and I went ahead and quit my day job to make knives full time. My family and I moved out to Oceanside, CA from Orlando, Fl to have access to large CNC machines etc. and I am ready to start making this work. My questions is what can I do while my raw materials are shipping? I have pre-orders for sale on my website but I don't want to step on any toes on this forum. I'll be glued to my PC for the next few hours. Any advise is welcome. I included a rendering of what I am making this week and next week.

Medium EDC Rendering.jpg

Thanks everyone in advance,
Dylan

vitalknives.com
 
Welcome to Shop Talk.

Since you already did it, I guess you aren't asking advice on going full time. It is a hard business to make a success in. Many don't.

Do you already have a customer base and a successful market for your knives? How many have you sold to date? How long have you been a knifemaker?


As far as the knife shown, I don't see it as all that attractive to buyers unless the cost is low. Don't take that too seriously, as I don't see the attraction in many popular commercial knives. With proper marketing, people buy them. Price is very important, though.

In the mean time, work on setting up the shop and getting all the paperwork done. Running a business takes lots of permits and licenses. Get the places where the supplies will go ready, and set up CNC programming.

You can sell your knives in The Exchange, and can post build threads on how you make them in Shop Talk or Hammer and Tongs.

Good luck!
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Welcome to Shop Talk.

Since you already did it, I guess you aren't asking advice on going full time. It is a hard business to make a success in. Many don't.

Do you already have a customer base and a successful market for your knives? How many have you sold to date? How long have you been a knifemaker?


As far as the knife shown, I don't see it as all that attractive to buyers unless the cost is low. Don't take that too seriously, as I don't see the attraction in many popular commercial knives. With proper marketing, people buy them. Price is very important, though.

In the mean time, work on setting up the shop and getting all the paperwork done. Running a business takes lots of permits and licenses. Get the places where the supplies will go ready, and set up CNC programming.

You can sell your knives in The Exchange, and can post build threads on how you make them in Shop Talk or Hammer and Tongs.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the feedback! To answer you questions I have been at it for about three years now in a small garage. I sold my first 15 a year back while I had my day job. The cost was a concern of mine, I can't price it lower than it is on mu site and still have capital to advertise and run my shop. I am hoping our fit and finish bring customers in. All our CNC is in house, the only thing we don't have is equipment for heat treating.

I guess we will see how it goes.

Thanks,
Dylan
 
How many knives did you sell last year, and how many do you plan on selling in the next year?
Do you have any photos of recent knives you sold?
 
I have several questions and concerns. What materials are you using (Blade steel,handle material). Do you want to be a knifemaker or a manufacturer? You claim you feel the price is high (I agree) but you hope your fit and finish brings in the customers, but the photos on your website would totally scare me away as far as fit and finish. I'm not trying to be mean. I also feel that trying to sell "Pre-Orders" using a CAD drawing is not fair to your customers. I would recommend getting a full time job and make knives as a hobby until the hobby becomes profitable to the point that you can no longer afford to work.
 
I agree with J, the fit and finish on the pictures on your website do not justify (in my opinion) the price for that knife. I am not trying to be mean, just trying to be honest. Now, if you are planning on the fit and finish of the knives being better when they are machined via cnc versus hand finished, then I would wait until you have several of those knives done and post pictures of them. (for a good example of how nice knives can look straight off of the cnc, check out nathan the machinist or aaron gough.)

Also, the jimping on the underside of the guard where your forefinger would go when holding the knife looks like it would be extremely uncomfortable to use. Just my two cents
 
I was trying to be polite and not pick on your one knife shown. But, since the camel has it's nose under the tent ( Farsi proverb), lets talk about it.

The price and quality of your EDC don't match up at all. Knives like that sell for less than $100 unless the maker is a big name ( and those guys get fit and finish right). There are design issues, too.

I also didn't mention that the vast majority of full time makers have a spouse who brings home a good salary and has family insurance as a benefit. Without that probably, 70% of full timers would be out of business or living in abject poverty.

Just a few numbers to point out the difficulties.
Lets say you are single and make knives in your garage. Your housing, food, and normal expenses ( clothes, car, etc.) cost you $2500 a month ( which isn't going to go far in California)
If business expenses ( licenses, electricity, supplies, tools, etc.) average $500 a month (unrealistically low for a business), the total is $3000 a month or $36,000 a year. That is just to work and live, ... no future plans, advertising, new equipment, insurance, entertainment, beer, or extras.

If your knife costs $50 to make and sells for $200, you will need to make ... AND SELL ... 200 a year. That is 12-13 a month ... every month. Every week you will need to find new customers. These customers won't come and knock on your door, so there will have to be shows, advertisements, and other selling venues. These will cost money and time you don't have.

The above scenario would be far too little if you have a family. With a family, you will have to sell a knife a day, maybe two, every single day. No weekends, no vacations, no time off for getting sick ... and very little time for the family.

Use the BF custom search engine and read the many threads on going full time and knifemaking as a business.
https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=012217165931761871935:iqyc7cbzhci

We aren't trying to put you down, but you need to know what you are up against and have others who aren't invested in your project tell you their opinion of your knife.
 
From someone who has recently, kinda, done what you are trying to do, let me chime in. I'm about 60% full time building and selling forges, opposite my slowly dying computer repair shop. My first few forges were similar in fit and finish to the knife you show. I recognized that they were a long way from being of the quality that would warrant a full time job. Almost four years later, they are almost ready to be of the quality and finish that I am comfortable with, yet there are still improvements that I can and am making. Sorry to say this, but your knife appears a long way from being that quality. Rounded handle corners, pad sander finish, and a lack of finish on the handle as implicated by the pins.

The first year I sold 30 forges, 75 the second, 196 forges and 100 burners the third, and 200+ forges, 300+ burners and 300+ regulators this year. That's a lot of volume, yet I'm still not making enough to go full time. I've streamlined the build process quite a bit, and have done a lot to cut unnecessary expenses including purchasing in larger quantities. I figures about 2 more years until the day job is done and I do nothing but try to make money off my hobby. However, I really would have regretted trying to do this full time 4 years ago.
 
Thank you all for the input. Yes, I agree the prototype is rough around the edges and I look to hit the fit and finish I want by completing about 90% of the manufacturing via CNC. Sorry if I don't get to any answers trying to be thorough but technically I am starting three small businesses and this is one of them so I'm slammed. This particular model is a 440C steel convex ground with a cherry wood handle. I have made some micarta in house which I will use on other models. I like the input about the guard jimping might take that out of the model. While I want to be a manufacturer further down the line my goal is to have small batches until I can make many at once. I have a following of about 80 I gathered as Baklor Blade and Tool on Etsy but I didn't have the right tools or access to a CNC machine. I have three now which should help.
 
Also, I don't think many who sell $200 knives are full time. The few full time makers I know might sell tiny paring knives for $200, but most of their blades sell for considerably more. Lastly, if I remember the gist of the previous threads correctly, CNC isn't all that helpful in knifemaking. The setup and machine time is about equal to the time on a 36 grit belt, so it's basically a wash.

Please, tell us more about your other businesses. We would have approached this differently had you started out saying that was the case.
 
We are a composites shop. I am running the books for the composites work we are doing (primarily new remote control products involving filming) but when I am not doing that I am making knives. Our CNC machine will be helping with the bevel and the handles so it won't speed up the process just improve the consistency in my grinds.
 
Dylan,
I think a lot of the confusion is from your first post. You said you quit your job and moved your family to California to be a full time knifemaker.
Now you are "running the books" in a big CNC shop and making knives in your spare time?

Perhaps some clarification would help.
 
I see. I can understand why the concern is for me to have something stable to keep a roof over our heads and I have that under control. My question of what to do while my raw materials are en route is the issue I am having. I am not sure how to get my name out in the open and engage in a way that gets me exposure. I appreciate the concerns that are being raised but the small business I have started is keeping us comfortable until I can get the knife making branch of the company started. Does anyone have some additional advice on how to engage more potential customers?

Thanks in advance,
Dylan
 
Dylan,
I admire your entrepreneurial spirit. I've had the dream of making knives myself for 40 years like three generations before me. I was a principle in a large crane and rigging co. and been retired for four years now with a very comfortable income. I crunched the numbers and decided not to throw good money after bad in a very saturated market even though I have an advantage with my name. I am a custom maker making knives when I want to without the pressure of meeting projections. You mentioned you are running the books for your company so you must understand the cost of doing business, analysis, fixed and variable cost, profit margins and all the laws of supply and demand.
I'm not trying to discourage you but I think you got a lot of good advice on this thread from men who have hiked this trail you are about to embark on.

I wish you good fortune

Bill Schrade
 
DylanBaklor said:
..........I am not sure how to get my name out in the open and engage in a way that gets me exposure..........
Click to expand...


The only way to do that is to get your knives out there and into the hands of as many people as possible. A pre-order is something that you would do after you are popular. You need to get knives in the hands of reviewers, people with popular youtube accounts with many followers, respected people in the knife community to try them out and say good things about them. Basically in one word.... Marketing.

This is my suggestion:
Make about 5 knives the absolute best you can. Then contact people who specialize in product reviews or really respected names in the knife community and ask them if they will try out and review your knife. Most of them will gladly do it if the knife appeals to them and they like it. This will be a good start.

It is really hard to get someone to buy a $200 knife online from someone they have never heard of. They can't hold the knife or anything like that, so having a few people use them, talk about them, and review them will go miles farther than you just talking about how good they are.
 
"....I am not sure how to get my name out in the open and engage in a way that gets me exposure...."

The way most every maker doers that is meet people face to face and talk knives ... especially talking about the ones they sell. You have to do shows, attend knife events, go to hammer-ins, etc.
I know that young people today think social media is how everything is done, but I doubt it works well in the custom knife business until you are already a known name. A thousand Facebook "friends" and a hundred "likes" or "views" may not sell a single knife.

Bladeforums is a place to do some of that recognition online. Post photos of your knives, talk about your methods, show your shop, etc.
Using Charles ( Atlas Forge) as an example, he went to shows, took his forge to hammer-ins, he talked to every maker he knew about it, he listened to feedback and improved it, ... and posted questions as well as build threads here in Shop Talk. Slowly his name and his product became known, and people now can say to a person who wants to start forging knives, "You might want to check out the Atlas Mini-Forge." Similarly, once enough people know you and your products well, and have heard feedback from others, they might say, "If you're looking for a good EDC, try the Mod.X from Dylan Baklor."
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
"....I am not sure how to get my name out in the open and engage in a way that gets me exposure...."
Click to expand...

I'm a bit with the other guys on this one. Make a dozen knives that are super clean. Take them to a few shows and put them in people's hands. Take or pay for some excellent pictures. If the product is solid, the name recognition and exposure will follow.
 
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