Introduction and a question or two.

D

Dfib

Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
62
Hi all,

I've been lurking for two+ months here soaking up information like a sponge. I've read the count's usual post to new knife makers several times and think I have my head wrapped around the concept of making a knife enough to give it a go. I started by modifying CS Trail Hawks, but got sucked into this section quickly.

Over the last two days I layed out the design for and rough profiled a fillet knife and a bird & trout using .70" S-35VN. The fillet needs a bit more touch up, but the bird & trout came out pretty good. I'm currently waiting on a bubble jig to grind in the profiles.

So far I've picked up: several hand tools I was needing, a 2X42 craftsman grinder with a good selection of blaze ceramic and gator belts, 1084 & S-35VN from Aldo (best packaging of ANY package I have ever received!), several wood scales and I'll be ordering some micarta today, the misc epoxy, pins, sandpaper, and other disposable supplies typically suggested. I have a decent variable speed drill press that does it's job well.
Any suggestions for any other "must have" tools?

I would like to heat treat my blades myself, if for no other reason than because I hate waiting on shipping.

I've built a 2.5 brick forge based on the 2 brick forge WIP, but could only find hard firebrick locally.
I went ahead and completed the forge, lined it with approximately 1/8" of refractory cement. Last night when I fired it for the first time it did not appear that the heat was even or as hot as it should have been with propane. Switching to MAPP gas made no dicernable improvement. Does hard firebrick retain less heat than soft? Is there an easy solution for heating a small 2.5 brick forge better or more evenly? Better torch? More insulation? Second burner? More importantly am I chasing my tail building a forge when I would be better off purchasing a larger forge? (I was looking at the 2 burner deluxe knife making forge from Majestic Forge last night) The town I live in is about 50k people but sourcing forge materials seems diffcult.

I will also be ordering a PID with K-type thermocouple for temperature monitoring this weekend.

A big thanks to everyone so far for all the information contained here.
~Smitty
 
Last edited:
I would recommend going to Indian George's website and building a forge based on his design. It will get much hotter and you should be able to do it cheaper than buying one. Also with the availability of materials on the internet obtaining what you need is only a few mouse clicks away. I built my first forge while stationed in Keflavik Iceland. I found all the materials locally, even the kao whool and castable refactory.
 
Look for a pottery supply placed,they usually have all the things you will need to line the forge.The S-35vn you will have to send out as it takes a kiln and good heat control and long soak times.
Welcome to the addiction and have fun.
Stan
 
The biggest hold up for building a forge is a lack a welder of any type.

I just found some intersted plans that use conduit lock rings so I'm swaying towards another building attempt.
 
SBuzek said:
Look for a pottery supply placed,they usually have all the things you will need to line the forge.The S-35vn you will have to send out as it takes a kiln and good heat control and long soak times.
Welcome to the addiction and have fun.
Stan
Click to expand...

Stan, I was under the impression after reading the data sheets that S-35VN required the following: a preheat to 1550F, a 15-30 minute soak at 1900-2000F (in foil), plate quench, and double temper at 400-700 with cryo in between.
Assuming I can hold hold temperature with a forge, are there other reasons it needs to be sent out? I quench plates coming and have access to dry ice, kerosene, and SWMBO is ok with tempering in the kitchen oven as long as I don't quench in nasty oil.

Thanks for the tip on the pottery supply places!

Smitty
 
Dfib/Smitty

Howdy neighbor. I live down the road in Sun Prairie.

I tried to find the soft insulating bricks in Madison and ended up buying two of the harder ones like you did. Hearing the problems you've encountered using them I think I will hold off on trying to scratch out a chamber between them and reconsider what I'm doing.

I am still using a charcoal fired coffee can "forge" for use with 1080. It's cheap but has problems and I'm getting tired with it's shortcomings. Thus I'm looking at making a two-brick forge like you. I don't understand why a welder is needed to make a two-brick forge though.

Can you be more precise in what happened with your forge? How large was the piece of steel you were heating? How and where is the hole for the flame? What were you expecting and what did you get as far as the heating? How large is the chamber? Could you show a picture?

If you find yourself heading in this direction give me a holler. I'm in the phone book. I've been making my knife-shaped-objects only since 2008 and wouldn't mind swapping lies with you.

- Paul Meske
 
The thing with complex alloys is they like very controlled temps to get consistant results.I don't think it could be possible to hold a 5 deg window in a forge for 30-40 min.You could probably get it to harden but wouldn't know the interior structure or get any where near its optimium proformance.
Stan
 
Dfib said:
Stan, I was under the impression after reading the data sheets that S-35VN required the following: a preheat to 1550F, a 15-30 minute soak at 1900-2000F (in foil), plate quench, and double temper at 400-700 with cryo in between.
Assuming I can hold hold temperature with a forge, are there other reasons it needs to be sent out? I quench plates coming and have access to dry ice, kerosene, and SWMBO is ok with tempering in the kitchen oven as long as I don't quench in nasty oil.
Click to expand...

Stan is right. You really need to properly control heat and environment on S35Vn. You may be able to HIT the target temps with a small forge, but you'll never be able to reliably hold them in the small window required for the time required for a high alloy steel. If nothing else, a small forge will generally have wicked hot spots. You can get away with moving a blade around if it's a simple carbon steel since you just need to get to temp, not hold it.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I'd send it out for HT. It's hard to get HT right on Crucible steels when you have access to the proper tools, and darned near impossible to not just ruin them with the wrong tools for the job. I'd hate to see you put a lot of work into your first knives and then have them not live up to your expectations, or worse, be ruined.

-d
 
It all becomes clearer! I'll give Peter's a call monday about the S-35VN then.

So I have this right in my head...

Ok for forge heat treat:
1080/1084
5160
1095 (maybe)

And I would need to look at a heat treat oven for anything requiring a lengthy soak.

How about a PID controlled blower forge like Stacy covered in the stickies? Would that maintain an even enough heat for Crucible steels?

Thank you for the replies!
 
Not really,a forge is just not a good enviorment for complex steels.
Also on your s35vn blades,before sending them out, take them to 95% complete.Edge at about .015.Do most all hand sanding and finishing.It can be a bear to hand sand after H/T.
Stan
 
SBuzek said:
Not really,a forge is just not a good enviorment for complex steels.
Also on your s35vn blades,before sending them out, take them to 95% complete.Edge at about .015.Do most all hand sanding and finishing.It can be a bear to hand sand after H/T.
Click to expand...

This is sage advice! Really, get to the final finish you want before HT. You wil have a bear of a time trying to remove scratches in this stuff after HT.

-d
 
Thank you for the tips on finishing! I was planning sanding to 600 grit, will that be enough if I'm not planning on a mirror finish? I had planned on .020" for the edge, but if .015" is ok I have no problem going farther.
Again thank you for taking the time to nudge me in the right direction.
 
A good clean 600 is fine,will leave very little work after H/T.
Stan
 
I take my S35VN to nearly final edge, leaving only enough to clean up and sharpen. I take the surface to 400-800 range. They will come back from most HTers looking just about like they left.
 
In case Paul or Smitty or anyone in the area is still looking for soft bricks near Madison, the only place I've found is Paoli Clay about 15 minutes south of Madison. $5 each

(608) 845-7000
6879 Paoli Rd
Belleville, WI 53508
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top