Introduction and newbie observations

[GKWallace]

Hello everyone!
I'd first like to thank everyone on this forum for their advice and help that got me started making knives.

I've never posted because I really didn't have any real knowledge or experience to share. Everything I ever wanted to know was, generally, already posted.

My advice and observation to new knife makers:

Start making knives!
You can read, study, ask questions, but in the end, you and only you knows what works for you. What is perfectly sane and logical advice for one person most likely isn't the answer for YOU.

Don't worry about having the right equipment.
I almost gave up a few times. I thought, If I only had this grinder or this drill press, I could do this better. Since I couldn't afford what I wanted I just kept going. Today, I still use a piece of shit Harbor Freight 4x36 sander/grinder and a bigger piece of shit drill press. I use a giant pottery kiln that takes 3 hours to get to temp. Everything else is hand tools.
(One huge improvement was spending the most money I could on the best ceramic belts I could find.)

It's been 6 months since I started and I'm now making what I consider really bitchen knives. I'm not really into making perfectly pretty knives, just perfectly functional knives. (I tend to ruin any finish in a week or two of use and just don't have the kind of time to worry about coatings, etc.)

I hope this helps a new knifemaker who thinks they can't do it because they don't have the right equipment, the right workshop, or the right knowledge. Doing it anyway you can is the way you'll get good.

That's my 2 cents for the day.

Here are a couple of knives I just finished. They are relic fighter/utility knives. They take a beating like no other knife I've owned.

 

[Frank Niro]

They sure look good from here! And they are even better when they can do the job at hand!
Frank

 

[Hengelo_77]

those edges look very thick

 

[gammarad]

Thanks for the advice, and I second it: go make knives.

I'm just finishing an insane spree of making knives, as I'm moving to a smaller place and I have to get rid of some of the tools. I profiled, heat treated and beveled around 30, in 4 different models. I acquired more skills in two weeks than in the last two years... well, at least for grinding as heat treating really benefits from a lot of reading.

Those fighters look neat! A priori, I also think they are quite thick. Do you mind sharing your thought process behind it, and how they perform in real life?

 

[john april]

good sturdy looking pieces. but i agree the edges look thick. thinner edges will slice and perform better. after heat treat, i take the edge down to .020 with 120 grit. when i get to 1500 grit, its about .010 which works well.

 

[GKWallace]

Thanks for the advice, and I second it: go make knives.

I'm just finishing an insane spree of making knives, as I'm moving to a smaller place and I have to get rid of some of the tools. I profiled, heat treated and beveled around 30, in 4 different models. I acquired more skills in two weeks than in the last two years... well, at least for grinding as heat treating really benefits from a lot of reading.

Those fighters look neat! A priori, I also think they are quite thick. Do you mind sharing your thought process behind it, and how they perform in real life?

This was a very similar situation. I started with six waterjet blanks, down to 5 now. The pommel and the guard were cut oversized then hand filed to fit perfectly tight. It actually takes force to get them into position. I used two 1200lb SS roll pins to secure the pommel and guard. During testing, i.e. beating the shit out of them with a 4lb sledge, solid pins would bend and stay bent. The roll pins absorbed shock and pretty much held everything in place with no looseness. It wasn't until I disassembled them that I could see that there was anything wrong with the pins. I also used pins so that the knife could be disassembled for maintenance, which was on of my requirements.

I did 2 in gray terotuf, 1 in orange terotuf and 2 in black canvas micarta. All the other knives have a nice 220 finish. I did these with the relic type look cause I thought it looked cool. The blades are .25" thick with a 20dps edge. Because the edges on the 2 shown were so thick, I sent them to Josh at Razor Edge Knives to make sure they were done perfect. My other knives were ground much thinner. The cutting edge is 5" long, the handle a little shorter.

The knives evolved from 3 ideas. My little Gerber Strongarm is my favorite do most anything knive. I love M9's and Kbars. So basically I took all the things I likes in those knives and fixed the things I didn't like and made them into one knife.

KBars are good knives, but I've broken 2 and the handle twists in your hand when you twist/pry things apart. Also, the guard is a little weak.
That was easy to fix, flat sided handle with a thicker guard.

Who doesn't like the M9 bayonet! Just too big to carry all the time. I studied bayonets from all over the world, from different eras, and incorporated that into this knife. The guard originally was symmetrical and was long on both sides, but that made it impossible to choke up on the blade for more precise work. I like to work over the top of the spine for some things.

The blade shape is exactly like a Strongarm. I put a swedge in most of the knives and jimping on all of them. I was bashing the knife through a 55 gallon drum and the swedge ones penetrated much deeper on the first try. The knife easily pries open car doors and punches right through them.

To the observant who commented on the thickness, yes they are thick. If you want to pry, hammer, break, lever as well as cut, you pretty much have no choice but to make the edge thick. I think of this knife as my "dynamic entry tool".

Thanks for asking about them. Ask me if you want to know more. It was a very long design process, 6 prototypes and a lot of errors to get to this point. If I can help you avoid any of that, that would be great.

 

[GKWallace]

good sturdy looking pieces. but i agree the edges look thick. thinner edges will slice and perform better. after heat treat, i take the edge down to .020 with 120 grit. when i get to 1500 grit, its about .010 which works well.

I agree with your measurements, just not for the role of this knife. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[GKWallace]

Here's one in black canvas finished yesterday. No edge on it yet.

 

[GKWallace]

good sturdy looking pieces. but i agree the edges look thick. thinner edges will slice and perform better. after heat treat, i take the edge down to .020 with 120 grit. when i get to 1500 grit, its about .010 which works well.

Your knives are amazing. There are very few knives that I think are really incredible, but yours definitely qualify. Your little fighters give me chills. Kinda makes me want to quit making knives.

 

[Knife freaky]

Those knives look like tanks! Good job!

Daniel.

 

[GKWallace]

Those knives look like tanks! Good job!

Daniel.

Thank you and yes, they are.

 

[Willie71]

How thick are the edges before sharpening? The thickest edge that would leave my shop would be 0.020". If you need to go thicker than that, you have a heat treat or steel choice issue. I cut a nail with a z-wear edge at 0.010" Rc64 with basically no damage.


Btw, good job on the knives. This isn't my style of knife, but you put a lot of thought into what you were doing.

 

[GKWallace]

How thick are the edges before sharpening? The thickest edge that would leave my shop would be 0.020". If you need to go thicker than that, you have a heat treat or steel choice issue. I cut a nail with a z-wear edge at 0.010" Rc64 with basically no damage.


Btw, good job on the knives. This isn't my style of knife, but you put a lot of thought into what you were doing.

Thanks for the compliment and your insight. The knives in the picture were sent to Josh at Razor Edge Knives (shameless plug for a guy who help me a lot during this process) about .045+. We didn't know exactly if we were going to do a convex edge or the angles I wanted. I left a lot of meat on so he had choices. The follow on knives are at .030" before he gets them. These knives are O1 TS with around 58 RC.
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Willie71]

O1 at Rc60/61 is pretty damned tough. You would likely be fine with 0.020" and 20 or 25 dps. Dropping below Rc60 with O1 sacrifices edge retention disproportionally to the increase in toughness. You may want to try 80crv2, or 8670 (15n20 would be great, but you would have to stack weld it to get the thickness you are using) at Rc60. If you need more toughness than that, S7 would be a great steel from what I've read. I haven't used S7 myself. I've used all the other steels I've mentioned. Going up in price, you get 3v, or L6 if you can find it.

What I'm suggesting is fine tuning your choices rather than dropping past the steel's optimal balance of toughness/wear resistance. Properly heat treated, I'm finding going below Rc60 is simply not needed. If you need to go lower with modern fine grained tool steels, you probably have a heat treat issue, or could make a better choice.

 

[GKWallace]

O1 at Rc60/61 is pretty damned tough. You would likely be fine with 0.020" and 20 or 25 dps. Dropping below Rc60 with O1 sacrifices edge retention disproportionally to the increase in toughness. You may want to try 80crv2, or 8670 (15n20 would be great, but you would have to stack weld it to get the thickness you are using) at Rc60. If you need more toughness than that, S7 would be a great steel from what I've read. I haven't used S7 myself. I've used all the other steels I've mentioned. Going up in price, you get 3v, or L6 if you can find it.

What I'm suggesting is fine tuning your choices rather than dropping past the steel's optimal balance of toughness/wear resistance. Properly heat treated, I'm finding going below Rc60 is simply not needed. If you need to go lower with modern fine grained tool steels, you probably have a heat treat issue, or could make a better choice.

Thanks for your awesomeness! I am grateful for your opinion and help. I don't know why, but I really have a thing for O1. I have better luck with the simpler steels. I've used 1084, 1095 and d2. O1 seemed more consistent with my methods.
I really want to master one steel at a time. At first I jumped back and forth with steels without really understanding what was going on.
As far as tempering goes, I have no experience with different RC hardness and O1. It was just a wild assed guess. 500 degrees, 2 hours, twice.
As a side note - i couldn't do a grind for shit at first so I was making little kiridashis. I used lots of simple carbon steels, but O1 water quenched was by far the most crazy sharp version. It's just so hard to tell what effects certain materials and methods have when you are improving every time and at such a fast pace.

Thanks again for the RC advice. That's the target I'll use for my next batch.