Iron Kiss 50 power hammer

Sam Salvati said:
Hammers are a very personal choice, maybe if John was a few months earlier I would have considered the IK instead (as the 100 is WAY too much hammer for my own shop). I'll be VERY fascinated to run the 50 pound IK at F&B hopefully (DEKER HINT HINT)! But I don't think i'll be trading mine EVER.
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I've been chatting with John about what's coming to F&B...I'm going to take a trip to his shop in a few weeks and see what's what with the new 50 and 75lb hammers. He's also got a press he's been doing some experimentation with and that may make the trip as well. We'll see. :)

-d
 
deker said:
I've been chatting with John about what's coming to F&B...I'm going to take a trip to his shop in a few weeks and see what's what with the new 50 and 75lb hammers. He's also got a press he's been doing some experimentation with and that may make the trip as well. We'll see. :)

-d
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Awesome! I wanna see the mini-ness of it! The 100 he had last year was BIG, will be cool to see a scaled down version.
 
Sam Salvati said:
Awesome! I wanna see the mini-ness of it! The 100 he had last year was BIG, will be cool to see a scaled down version.
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I'm pretty sure it's about the same height, but a little thinner. Now, a BIG hammer was the 20:1 160lb he built last year...just an amazing piece of equipment...

-d
 
Dan Seaver said:
Thanks for the quick and honest answer.

Blah! That extra thickness ground off translates to lost profit that could pay for your new hammer. :) Lets say your bar has one low spot at .110 while the rest of the bar averages .13. Lets say that this .02 difference is the average for every bar, the bar is 1 wide and 12 long. That almost 1/4 of a cubic inch per bar. Lets say you get 7 bars per billet and sell it for $10 a linear inch. Thats about 1.68 cubic inches extra per billet lost or about $160.

Now lets say your rolling mill rolls to .005, that's only $40 lost. I've thought long and hard about it and the best way to increase profits while keeping the quality and price the same, its not working faster or on a bigger hammer; it is (drum roll please) to work more efficiently to decrease waste.


Anyways back to the main topic. :p
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Dan,
One of the keys to sucess in this business is providing what the customer wants. When providing raw material, the easier it is for your customer to integrate your material into their existing system of knifemaking the more you will sell to that customer. Knifemakers enjoy having good clean flat barstock to work with. I can tell you that I tripled my sales the first year I sold flat ground stock. I can also tell you that the finished damascus barstock I produce is less than 30% of the material I started with and in some patterns it is less than 20%. And I do this for a living, sucessfully, with 4 kids to feed. I take care of my customers, and take into consideration their needs. In 2008 I forged 2200 lbs of steel into finished damascus barstock, and sold it all. I met my customers needs.
Your last statement is true in part, but you do have it wrong that working faster does not decrease waste, the fewer heats you have the less you will lose to scaling, so the faster you can work a billet the more finished material you will have to sell.
Take these factors into consideration when selling steel in the future, if you do your increase in business will more than make up for the material you waste.
Thanks,
Del


Oh and back to the topic, one of the smaller Iron Kiss hammers is now on my wish list as an accessory in my shop, I have been thinking about getting a small hammer for certian jobs and one of these will fit the bill, I just don't know if it will be the 50 or the 75. Have to go to baltimore and see or maybe I just need a vacation. :D
 
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Thanks for the tips Del! I have a surface grinder which needs a chuck and vfd, its my next investment after the rolling mill is finished.

Working faster can increase end product and will decrease fuel cost/time; but personally I find that decreasing the size of forging pits though fluxing often and brushing off the bar decreases the waste more than using my hammer at full speed to decrease material lost though scale. The extra time is minimal while the decreased loss is astounding.
 
Dan,
Just remember that the surface pitting is only a critical factor at the very end of the process and that the flux also acts as an acid, eating some of your steel away, while material loss through scaling happens through the entire process.
thanks,
Del
 
So, here are a few initial comments on using the 50lb hammer from John's Blog:

I tried out this baby of the family and it drew a calla lily stem outta a rr spike in one heat with finesse, perhaps more so than my Octagon 100. I watched the spike get hotter as I was hitting it, so there is ample power there. I only did two spikes, so cannot really call it much of a testing session.
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FWIW, John's calla lilies usually have about an 18" stem. Sounds good to me so far! :)

-d
 
John writes so well, the way he describes things you understand perfectly. Sounds like an amazing hammer!
 
Resurrecting this post to fill in a little more info for you guys. I had a chance this past weekend to use a 50# Iron Kiss and was suitable impressed. It hits really hard for a 50# hammer. I also got some video of Sam Salvati drawing down a piece of 1" W-1. Figured I'd share with you guys. No sound, but that's because it was my crappy little "don't mind carrying it to a muddy hammer-in" camera. ;)

Here's the video!

-d
 
I agree with Sam. I've got the 55lb striker and self contained is the way to go. When I do Damascus I run two billets in the forge at once and waiting for the compressor would not be good.

Regardless any powerhammer is better than none.
 
I want one, already have the compressor.

Thanks for the review and video Mr. Deker

Leadfoot
 
Mike Quesenberry said:
I agree with Sam. I've got the 55lb striker and self contained is the way to go. When I do Damascus I run two billets in the forge at once and waiting for the compressor would not be good.

Regardless any powerhammer is better than none.
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For what it's worth, we ran the 50# hammer, and an older Iron Kiss 110lb prototype with a 5HP 2-stage compressor all weekend with no problem. The 50# IK will do continuous, production forging with a 5HP compressor. It'll operate well at 60PSI, super at 80PSI, and it gets downright asskicking at 100PSI.

I previously wanted the biggest hammer John could make me. Now after running the 50# I'm thinking more of a press paired with a smaller (75#) hammer is going to be the most versatile setup.

-d
 
That ting looks impressive. For a "little" 50 pounder it sure does smack some steel around...
 
Leadfoot2 said:
I want one, already have the compressor.
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Tell John I sent ya'! ;) Or, at least that bladeforums sent you. Not because I get any kickback or anything mind you, but he's advertising on several fronts and it would be nice to know which audiences are listening so he can pay more attention to them. I'm pretty sure that the bladesmith community will see more chances to check out an Iron Kiss if he hears interest from our little group. For example, after speaking with John last weekend, it looks like we'll probably have one of his hammers to use at Ashokan as long as it doesn't conflict with his trip to the Quad State blacksmiths gathering in September.

-d
 
Hi D, that is impressive. Impressive enough to get putting alittle more $$ into the coffe can for a 75 lb'er. Thanks for posting!
 
Saw the video of Sam forging out the 1" w-1 , GO SAM! I must admit the Iron kiss looks like a very heavy duty machine and moved the 1" round bar no problem. I like heavy duty. Nice machine!
 
Great stuff... :)

Is young Sam demonstrating the hammer is so good you don't even need to wear safety glasses? ;)
 
NickWheeler said:
Great stuff... :)

Is young Sam demonstrating the hammer is so good you don't even need to wear safety glasses? ;)
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Didn't you see where the goggles were? He was protecting his third eye! :p

According to John, the 75 hits well more than 50% harder. The reason for this is that the pneumatics in the 75# are the same as are used in the 100#. Larger cylinder = more bang. It apparently makes for a very "snappy" hammer.

-d
 
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