Is 110 Steel Mediocre Until Heat Treating?

TIZWIN said:
Buckaholic, your avatar has made me realize that steel type is way down on the list of things that really matter.
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Yep, Beer, Broads, and Bikes. I'm a simple dude.
Whatever steel she likes, I like. :)
If she decided to ride a Kawasaki, I'd ride a Kawasaki (my brothers would understand) :)
If she liked Coor's, I'd drink Coor's. :barf:
If she liked Case, I would just have to take a position and stay with Buck. :) A man has to know his limitations.
 
Buckaholic said:
Yep, Beer, Broads, and Bikes. I'm a simple dude.
Whatever steel she likes, I like. :)
If she decided to ride a Kawasaki, I'd ride a Kawasaki (my brothers would understand) :)
If she liked Coor's, I'd drink Coor's. :barf:
If she liked Case, I would just have to take a position and stay with Buck. :) A man has to know his limitations.
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WOW I was reading this and as it got down to the part about Buck I got nervous! But I see you gotta take a stand!!!!
I was really considering buying a Kawasaki but I think your avatar has me thinking otherwise LOL
Dont ever see wimin' wearing (or not wearing) Kawasaki clothers like that!
We should talk to EEE and see about an avatar award :D
 
So do Harley dealers include a Buck 110 with every bike sold? I mean, the two have gone together as long as I can remember.

Of course, at my age, I don't remember much. What was I talking about? Something about samovars, or scimitars, or Hershey bars...oh wait! AVATARS!
 
:eek: :eek: ...uhhhhhh...yer not a distant relation of my good buddy Dave are ya TIZWIN ???:p ????...LOL... and WELCOME to the best forum in town...oh yeah...I got one o' them samovars that I use with my Hershscimitar from time to time...:rolleyes: :cool: ;) :D
 
TIZWIN said:
Do you consider the steel in a current, standard Buck 110 inherently inferior to, say, S30V or BG-42? And if so, is it the Bos heat treatment which elevates the steel to what seems to be a par with at least Spyderco's VG10?
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I think it should be pointed out that 420HC [which Buck uses] has a higher Carbon content than 420; on the order of 0.4%, which I read some time ago and can't find now, but here is a site with similar stats -

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

I thought it was interesting that 420HC, even without Paul Bos' magic, is roughly equivalent to 440C (similarly un-heat treated)......
 
Heat treat makes all the difference in the world on almost all steels. In making a good knife blade, heat treat is maybe the most important element in the whole works.

average steel+great heat treat= good blade.

average steel+crappy heat treat= crappy blade

super steel+crappy heat treat= crappy blade.

super steel + good heat treat = good blade.

super steel + great heat treat = great blade.

Some of the super steels are have very small windows to make great heat treat, S30V and some others have very very specific "windows" where temp, time and speed of heat and cooling and tempering have to be very very precise or they do not stand up or they form monster carbides or get very fragile edges etc. Some of the more standard steels have much wider tolerances in the heat treat process and so in mass production lines are much more likely to get a "good" heat treat. Some will get great heat treats and some will get good heat treats and very few, if any will get crappy heat treats. This is great for a knife maker of some volume as it means the likely hood of sending out a crappy knife is fairly low.

Now with some super steels, getting a great heat treat is all that you can aim for. In other words, It will either be a great heat treat, or it will suck, with no middle ground. This makes it much harder, slower, and more difficult to get the desired product, but the end product is so good, it is worth throwing away 30 percent of the blades, Now some of the super steels are getting better this way, allowing a bit more error in the heat treating and yet still resulting in a good blade.

There are all sorts of things going on in the steel when it is heat treated, from making large carbide crystals that make the steel hard as diamond, to breakdowns in the material itself that allow the steel to crumble and releash these carbides if heated too much. I find the whole process fascinating and there is far far more to learn than what i can talk about here.

I was just talking to a manufacturer of tooling bits and cutters and he has started using a micro mill for his steel cutters. He and they have come up with a proprietary steel that lasts nearly as long as the carbide tooling they formerly used, but is far cheaper and easier to manufacture in his shop.

He says they are making 1 ton and less melts for them and the difference between a useful steel and this newer super steel is OUNCES or less of additives per ton of steel. He is very excited about the newer steel and relates that in making certain cutters, they are getting lifespans of 8 to 10 times previous materials with no loss in down time as they are easier to sharpen and allow them to cut shapes that would have never held up as the Tungsten carbide tooling that he was using before. Details of .03-05 are being held for very v ery long times without failure.
 
My first smart-alec thought when I saw this thread was, "EVERY steel is mediocre before heat-treat." I haven't talked myself into getting a S30V or BG42 knife yet. If I decide to try one, it will be a Buck though, because of the high reputation of their HT.
 
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