is .22 LR (from 22" barrel) sufficient for magpies?

ThinkOfTheChildren, I think you misunderstand me. I'm not opposed to killing when there is a good reason for it. I've done way more killing than I would have liked, but there's always been a reason for it. Killing to eat: sure. Killing to eradicate a pest that is a direct threat to your family or livestock: sure. Killing for amusement? No, THAT I'm opposed to.

Animals, for the most part, kill to eat. Yes, that is called nature. They have to eat, and that's how they've been securing sustenance for thousands, perhaps millions, of years. Should those same animals decide that humans should be added to their diet, then kill them.

I have no compunction whatsoever about killing, man or beast, when necessary. Killing for amusement, as the original poster (and a few after him) seemed to be suggesting is wrong to me. You may find it amusing: I don't.

I find your argument specious, at best. Certainly there are degrees of almost everything. How you came up with the idea that my view was all black and white is completely baffling to me.
 
dawsonbob said:
I find your argument specious, at best.
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At best? Hm. I'd be more than glad to hear what part of my "argument" was specious. In reality I was questioning more than arguing. In any regard, my questions and statements were genuine, although based on your follow-up posts it would simply seem I've misunderstood your position. I don't think that is of my own fault, however.

dawsonbob said:
How you came up with the idea that my view was all black and white is completely baffling to me.
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OK, I'll directly quote you:
dawsonbob said:
if you can't eat it, and it's not attacking you, then there's no reason to shoot it.
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You list two criteria for shooting: self-defense and eating.
Hence my perception that you viewed this in black and white.

You've now opened it up some more.
dawsonbob said:
Killing to eradicate a pest that is a direct threat to your family or livestock: sure.
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So apparently you don't view it as black and white as I thought, but my idea came from your words directly so I'm not sure why it baffles you.

I'm sure if we discussed it more you could list some other scenarios in which you found killing to be acceptable, but it was the "A or B" statement you made that colored my perception of your stance.
 
ThinkOfTheChildren,

Reading back, I can see how you came to that conclusion; I should have phrased it differently. No, I don't see the world as black and white absolutes; there are nuances to most things. I must say that, by extension, predators/vermin endangering your animals are a threat: they are attacking you indirectly, and should be eliminated. Failing that threat, and not wanting the animal to eat, why kill it? I just don't like killing for amusement. Others may have a different view, and that's up to them.

I do understand what you were saying, and I apologize for giving you the idea that I was that shallow in my thinking; I'm really not (honest).

Best
 
powernoodle said:
I recall a story about the Israelis once using Ruger 10/22's for "crowd control" - the goal being to shoot people in legs to dissuade bad behavior. Lethality (as in, too much) became a problem, so they stopped using the .22 for this purpose.
The story was from an Israeli military website called something like isaret.com, which I think might be gone.

I digress. :)

So, it is effective against small game, assuming proper shot placement. Frank is right about you not wanting to shoot one up in the air.

:thumbup:
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I think they used to take out pesky dogs with them also... Had a few photos of IDF soldiers shooting suppressed pimped out 10/22's floating around the net a few years ago.
 
I don't shoot them for amusement (although zapping them is extremely satisfying). I shoot them because they are annoying vermin. The same reason that I shoot rats.

 
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I shot only two magpies in my life (as a kid), with an anemic .177 air rifle. It took quite an effort, waiting in ambush while they got within 10 yards or so. Even at that range, and even with a headshot, they were still alive for a while when they hit the ground. Got quite a praise from my grandmother as they did a lot of damage.

I would like to revisit some aspects of my childhood, but with more grown up methods, and something like a .223 is way too loud for my taste.
 
ThinkOfTheChildren said:
At best? Hm. I'd be more than glad to hear what part of my "argument" was specious. In reality I was questioning more than arguing. In any regard, my questions and statements were genuine, although based on your follow-up posts it would simply seem I've misunderstood your position. I don't think that is of my own fault, however.


OK, I'll directly quote you:

You list two criteria for shooting: self-defense and eating.
Hence my perception that you viewed this in black and white.

You've now opened it up some more.

So apparently you don't view it as black and white as I thought, but my idea came from your words directly so I'm not sure why it baffles you.

I'm sure if we discussed it more you could list some other scenarios in which you found killing to be acceptable, but it was the "A or B" statement you made that colored my perception of your stance.
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Where's that eating popcorn icon when you need it?

Craig
 
C L Wilkins said:
Where's that eating popcorn icon when you need it?

Craig
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TOTC and dawsonbob have conducted their off-topic discussion maturely and with mutual respect. Hopefully they've had a sufficient opportunity to address their views on the ethics of the matter. In any case, the OP is interested in information concerning means and methods, not ethics. I'd suggest we move the discussion back in that direction.
 
Pilot1 said:
Wow. The man from Greeley really has some serious glass on that .22.
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ill take that as a compliment :D
leupold VX-1 3-9x40mm with a 4" sunshade.
i need more magnification for target shooting tho. thinking about a mueller 8.5-24x44mm
what part of colorado you from? i used to live in the springs too
 
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bradpierson26 said:
hell ya! it will be fine,
shoot CCI 36gr hollows out of something like this and you will be golden :D
IMG_1181.jpg

and the israelis failed miserably using .22s as crowd control fyi
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With something like that, how far out can you consitently hit a beer can, in low wind?
 
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