Is a Busse Worth the money?

CS's withholding data? That does sound wierd.

Anyway, I do agree that bowie knives can make good choppers for small trees but I prefer something much bigger(22 inch machete). I can chop faster with it and for only 10% of the price of TM.

And again, I'd love to know more about CS's dirty little secret.

Sincerely,
Adam

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Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
I had a Steel Heart 2, and thought it was a great knife. I only sold it to help fund my Battle Mistress
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But it was my favorite 7 inch blade. My goal now is to start getting each Busse in INFI. That should keep me busy for a while! Does anyone know if Jerry is going to try his hand at a folder?
 
First of all, yes, I own a Busse, and I'm a fan of their products. That said, I first ordered mine last year, just, unfortunately, before Jerry had his shop accident that sidelined him and tossed a monkeywrench into the Busse works for a while. Shortly after, they started their roll-out of the Basic production line. Doom on Don for his bad timing. So yes, communication with them was sometimes difficult and delivery time was longer than originally stated. But, I still love my INFI Steel Heart, and am thinking about a Mean Street or Badger Attack. In fact, I just used the SH to um, "disassemble" and gut some kitchen cabinets that we were adding new rolling shelves into. It was a strange job, confined spaces and wierd working clearance, along with a lack of other, perhaps, more suitable tools, that "you had to be there", but the Steel Heart did the job well, and actually made the job fun.

Cliff and Adam, when Turambar said
Cold Steel made an agreement with Busse that they would not use their damaging test results pubicly, and I don't want to be blamed for the leak!
Click to expand...
, could he in some way mean that Busse was holding the damaging test results, and not Cold Steel? Like Daffy Duck once said, "Aha! Pronoun trouble!" I know this doesn't make much more sense, but given the past advertising battles between the two, it was pretty obvious which knife the anti-Battle Mistress was in the comparisons. I'm still not sure what to think about the remark, though. Does sound rather troll-like. Maybe Turambar can elaborate enough to offer some real meat to the story which seems like wildly unfounded rumor and speculation at this point.

Bottom line, I like my Busse alot, have used it nowhere near as hard as it was designed to be used, and it performed very admirably. Would I spend my hard-earned money on another Busse? You bet your bippy.

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Don LeHue
Royal Oak, Michigan

The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.

 
Smoke, when I get a chance I'll try to do a better job and post a review in the Review forum or nonspecific one.

For the moment:

I will try and give a mini-review of the Busse Badger Attack. Perhaps when I get a chance to use it more I'll incorporate the following. First, the shape and heft is great. Feels good in hand. Probably, not the ultimate slicer because it is 1/4 inch Infi. It does taper quite a bit so it is manageable. If you do not mind a little extra weight, probably the perfect knife to carry for a hiker who is only going out for the day, but wants to be prepared for emergencies .... especially when combined with a saw etc. on a multitool.

It is heavy compared to a knife like the Spyderco Moran, but more readily carried than say a Battle Mistress. It depends on your knife using style. I cannot imagine being able to damage it past usefulness in a survival situation. Even Cliff would have to work at it.
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If you are a knife, and saw or clipper, type person it is more than you would ever need, including long outings. For more civlilized locations you might get less unwanted attention, than if you carried your Battle Mistress. It is not the thin scalpel type knife. I is certainly OK for hunting, especially if your want to be aggresive in your use of the knife or if it is a tough animal...say a turtle. Since I do not hunt, I cannot give a better evaluation of that aspect.

It did not come, nor have I gotten it as sharp as I like. It slices paper, but will not adequately push cut it. Will shave, but not cleanly. In other words, it is not hair popping sharp. It has the now typical asymetrical edge. Tried it on my whittling stick, before the last sharpening attempt. OK. Tried my Small Sebenza which got bigger shavings. It is softish wood, but hardened with a few months of age.

Handle is extremely comfotable. Black Canvas Micarta, I assume. Would be great for cracking nuts with the butt of the handle.

Sheath-adequate. Can carry it with the belt through the loop and blade portion outside or inside your pants. Loop is screwed on and I have not managed to unscrew it. The strong (green?) Loctite???? ...or it was personally inspected and then screwed tighter by the
the hammer slamming steel sucker
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himself.
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Instructions: None.

Fit and finish including grind but not sharpness: very good

Overall evaluation:
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out of a possible 5 large grins. Bottom line: I love it.

P.S. Some pictures here: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=91257&a=817804

[This message has been edited by Donald (edited 02 December 1999).]
 
I would DEFINITELY look at the Livesay RTAK. Almost al the performance of the Battle Mistress at half the price and about one sixth of the waiting time.
 
Thank you Donald. I was seriously attempting to get a BA in either steel. Either that or the Steel Heart.

I'm still recovering from getting a Mean Street and just put in an order for a Police Recruit. This way I can still have some cash for clothes.
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The BA looks to have a stouter broad blade than the Mean Street and it just looks cool.
 
Makes ok butter knife. If you want something sharp that cuts, buy a Terzuola. Gryphon M30A1 sharpest production knife in the world.
 
WOW Where the hell have I been!

OK I am testing a Basic #9 -vs- a Trail Master right now.

Question....

Do you guys want me to take these two knives to complete failure and post the results?

Of course you do!
I have completed the cutting portion of the test and all I have left to due it place the blades in a vice and go to town.

I will reveal that in my 48" drop tests neither blade failed.

I will post the results (and pictures) of the vice test in the trial issue of our new online magazine.

You guys better subscribe to this magazine or else
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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!

Support BladeForums! Check out the BFC Store!
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Hi all thanks for your info. As you may know I am making ghillie suits and need to get some out and around and get some reviews and pics of happy customers with their suits so here is what I would like to do. I would like to trade one of my BDU ghillie suits for a Busse Battle Mistress or Steel Heart in INFI of course. Is any one out there willing to do a trade and help me out. Thanks go here to get more info about my suits. http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000025.html Thanks. geoff.
 
My how I do love a healthy noholds barred discussion. By no means should my comments be taken as a pro-Cold Steel debate. I currently have neither a Cold Trail Master ( I just sold my last one) nor a Battle Mistress.

Adamantium and DonL, Cold Steel's agreement with Busse was definitely in Cold Steel's favor because Busse lauds his knives as being unbreakable. It was in Busse's favor due to edge holding ability. I'll explain this later. I don't know exactly what their agreement consists of but both companies agreed to keep from battling it out in the press.

Cliff your comments are definitely my most favorite because you think the same way I do. Let me respond to some of them.

First--about my "problem" with fatiguing fast with the Busse. I did not actually fatigue with the Busse. Let me be more specific. The Busse chops better than the Trail Master primarily in my opinion due to its increased bulk (5+ oz heavier). Sharpness was not a factor because they were both scary sharp to start with. In my chopping experience with both I didn't notice one getting any duller any faster than the other. When comparing the McGowan to the Busse I was stating that over a lengthy period of chopping one would fatigue easier with the Busse because the weight and dynamics of the hand axe allows for more wood being chopped and thus speedier jobs.

Second--glad you actually do some real chopping, it was my fear that most don't.

Third--I scrubbed the sap from my BM after chopping with it with scotchbrite and the black coating started to fade. Maybe I was pressing too hard but anything else wouldn't have done the job.

Now on to the tests Cold Steel did. Yes I decided that I would leak some info. as you guys need it and it does CS no good to hold it back and they can't be blamed for anything I say as I'm not an employee.

Sorry they're not as specific as you would like. I am interested in what light Mike's tests can shed on this topic when he's done. Anyway, my burly friend bought two. He put one in a vice, sorry, I don't know how far down but it wasn't the tip. He bent it with both hands until it snapped. It was pliable as Busse says, but he broke it with his onw two hands! Not with a pipe over the handle but simply reached out and pulled it over just like that! This blew his mind. He put in a carbon V rubber (yuck) handled trail Master and failed to snap it. The vice was mounted to a heavy steel shop table. he pulled the table up on two legs with the Trail Master. So he put some 50lb weights on the table (as you've probably seen in CS's marketing) to hold it down. He said he probably had with the table and weights about 400 lbs there. He pulled. This time the table didn't budge, and neither did the Trail Master. It bent yes but came back to true. So, thinking he had a bad blade on the first Busse, he put in the second. Snapped as easily as the first. He performed chopping/cutting tests first knowing that he might perhaps break a blade.

Comments on what I have just said--

1. Sure in normal line of duty, both blades should serve admirably, and such prying tasks would never be needed.

2. I know what your'e all thinking. No, what I've said is not a ploy by my friend to sell me a Trail Master. At the time I had a BM and a TM and my friend knew this. I wasn't in the market for knives at the time either. No he wasn't selling anything, he told my the honest truth after I swore I wouldn't spread the news (some friend I am huh?). What I'm getting at is that he was for real and the tests he did were fair and no pro Cold Steel BS.

3. Aren't we all really just splitting hairs? If you want a bowie, why not get one that suits your needs and not the supposed strongets or sharpest? Ron Hood said to me once as we were discussing blade steels that steel is steel. He really didn't care about the search for the magic steel anymore. I agree. I can sharpen any steel razor sharp. I never really abuse my knives anyway, and if I ever had to, a good blade from any of various makers should suffice.

Turambar
 
No offense, but if the blade broke that easily, then it's a bad blade, it's that simple. I'd be suprised if Busse wouldn't want it back simply for analysis just to find out what went wrong.

Didn't Busse do testing that was videotaped just like Cold Steel's "Proof" and the Busse knives surpassed the CS in every event?

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
It is really interesting to see how partitsan some of the politics on this site really are. How many of us really love knives because they are great tools, and could care less whose high priced name is on the tang....

Michael

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He who has smelt the smoke is never free again...

 
Turambar, yeah there are nice axes that will chop heavy wood better than a BM, I have several khukuris that the BM cannot keep up with either on large/hard woods. I do feel however that the BM certanily has enough chopping power for any work short of dedicated felling. Concerning chopping with the BM, I have been doing it alot as of late as I have been looking at the edge holding under high impacts as a function of grit finish on the bevel and several mods to the handle. This is on trees felled earlier this year. Pine and spruce mostly but there is some birch and maple. Small wood about 4 to 6 " base and about 15 to 20 feet long.

The edge holding work takes a bit of time as the BM is slow to dull, I have found that it takes about 500 chops to notice any significant degredation (it is not dull at this point, you can just notice it starting to slip while slicing) . This seems inline with the 24 2x4 statement of Busse. The handle mods are a bit of a pain to check out, as I have to look at long term use to examine security beyond the fatigue point. This means chopping has to be extended for about 30-45 minutes.

As for the coating starting to fade, I have not noticed any wear on the coating of my Basic from scrubbing gunk off of it. I have scratched about 25% of it off though (rock and metal impacts). I should note that I have seen some coating removed (small amounts, black specs) while scrubbing but that was because I have been soaking it in salt water for extended periods of time to examine corrosion resistance and coating durability, as well as seeing if it effected the grip bond to the tang (it has not).

As for the breaking, that does not sound good for me and my Battle Mistress then because I broke a TM doing something similar with very little effort. I put it in a stump and pulled on it an it broke before I could set myself to pull on it. However I had been doing heavy tip work with it just before that (stabs in a pine log and hard pulls to the side which could have weakened it). Anyway assuming the strength ratios are similar on my BM and TM I should snap the BM with no effort at all. If I get a chance I'll discuss this with Jerry and ask him if I can duplicate this with my BM and see how it holds up. Spark if you get a hold of him before I do can you mention it to him.


-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 03 December 1999).]
 
I just love threads like this, "Is_____worth the money?"
Well it depends on who you're talking to. If your preaching to the already converted, people who have already bought one, they will give you all the rationalizations in the world why this was a good idea. When actually it was because they had the money, and they wanted one, so they bought one, and they will never admit it wasn't worth it. Or, that they really could have gotten a few more practical tools, for the same jobs at a fraction of the cost.

I'm as guilty of this as anyone, "Let he who is without sin caste the first stone."

But, let's get real. We're here because we love knives. All in search of "the perfect knife," and then it's the next one. What's new what's hot, what's "IN". Aren't we all just chasing our own tails, and loving every minute of it?

I'm the proud new owner of a CS Trail Master, stag handle. I won't be chopping any tress' with it. Why, not a Busse? It ain't as pretty. Do I care who wins CS vs. Busse? It would be nice if the CS wins, that just validates my choice. If Busse wins, do I sell my CS and get a Busse? Ain't going to happen.

I admit it, I don't know much, but I know what I like.
 
Okay, hardcore Busse fans, here's a question.

What would you rather get for using? An old model Steel Heart II or an INFI Badger Attack? Resell is not an option.
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Thanks Jeff, I don't here that a lot, I just call them like I see them.
 
Better steels mean better knives can be made from them, very basically the geometry can be pushed further and the knives will have an extended range of use. While there are makers that stick to simple steels a lot are using high alloy tool steel steels and still others are using CPM's over the regular high-alloy ones grades.

There are difference in performance, if these are significant to you depends on your needs. As an example I use regular high-carbon drill bits as I don't need any more. Most of my family is in construction however and would never look at them as they are far inferior to high-speed and Ti tipped bits.

-Cliff
 
Have tried to post this before but have had problems with the password..
Anyway, I have all the Busse's except for the basic line but I do have the Basic5. I use knives daily. In 1981 I went to LTC. Rowes SERE instructor school at Ft. Bragg with a Shrade skinning knife so I've been on my quest for that ONE knife since then! In my opinion, the Busse comes the closest so far. Have tested the TM against the BM and the Anaconda9. The Anaconda is on my LBV but the Busse is in my bugout ruck and the TM has been retired. At this point, if I could only have ONE knife, it would be the BM. I might add that I have a Nordooh on order from Rob Simonich though! AH, the quest continues:>)
 
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