Is a folder good for anything?

EDCeeker:
No offence intended: But you're kinda soundin' like the kinda person that would ban things just because some people misuse them.
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Not at all.
I've had my fair share of fixed-blades over the years before I learned that they were not for me.
And I don't feel that anyone should have to justify a NEED in order to satisfy a WANT....but we should be honest with ourselves and know the difference.

But I still maintain, from all that I have learned in my 40 years, that if a fellow carries a large fixed-blade on a camping trip there is a very good chance that he is going to use it.
And young guys with large knives almost always end up hacking on a tree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by allenC
... I suspect that Sweden is much different from North Carolina.

Yes, and the North Woods are probably different from either, and Arizona is probably different still... I guess I'm missing your point.
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My point is that the folks of Fallkniven might know what type of knife is needed in Sweden, but they probably don't know what type of knife is needed in the Carolinas.
Catch my drift?
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenC
Down here, you really don't need a fixed-blade in the woods.

In your opinion.
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I would say that this one's a fact.
Nobody NEEDS a fixed-blade in the woods.
But, as I said before, I don't think anyone needs to justify a NEED in order to carry a big fixed-blade.
You can carry a chainsaw on a camping trip if you like, that's your business, not mine.
I find that hard to believe. It's been a couple decades since I've been in NC, but, when I was last there, there was lots of undeveloped areas.
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I guess it depends upon what you call "real woods".
The fact is that it's nearly impossible to travel in a straight line for five miles and not encounter "civilization".
And the state and federal parks down here are very popular, so encountering other campers and hikers is almost a certainty.
If you want to "get away from it all" and get in touch with your primitive self, the Carolinas is not the place.

The Possum:
Did it ever occur to you that some of us here might actually be private land owners, and can decide for ourselves what we want to do to our own property?
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Again, I never said that you could not or should not carry whatever you wish, private property or not.
And again, I don't think that you need to justify why you want to carry a large fixed-blade knife.
Carry whatever makes you happy.
But don't try to deceive yourself in to thinking that you really do NEED a large fixed-blade when you go in to the woods.
If you have the skills and knowledge for living in the woods, a 4" folder is more than enough blade.

But again, carry whatever makes you happy.

Allen.
 
allenC said:
I never said that you could not or should not carry whatever you wish, private property or not.

...But don't try to deceive yourself in to thinking that you really do NEED a large fixed-blade when you go in to the woods.
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You'll note that I specifically used the phrase "what we want to do to our own property", not on it.

And, don't try to decieve yourself into thinking you have any idea what you're talking about when it comes to the way I use my blades in the woods.

Cheers.
 
Interesting that this thread has gone from discussing folding vs. fixed to "large" fixed vs., what?, small folding?

Obviously, not all folding knives are smaller than all fixed-blades (e.g. Bark River Mini Canadian vs. the Lone Wolf Harsey Ranger).

So does a folding paring knife have it all over a fixed-blade paring knife?

Should the butcher be using folders?

Should the telco Lineman's Set replace the fixed-blade splicing knife with a folder to go with the scissors?

Doesn't it all depend?
 
allenC said:
But don't try to deceive yourself in to thinking that you really do NEED a large fixed-blade when you go in to the woods.
If you have the skills and knowledge for living in the woods, a 4" folder is more than enough blade.

But again, carry whatever makes you happy.

Allen.
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Allen, you contrast a " large fixed-blade " with a " 4" folder " "in the woods."

First, I like and regularly carry folding knives. I do not do so when hiking or backpacking in wilderness areas because I find that the same blade on a fixed-blade, even considering the sheath, is lighter and is stronger than on my folders. That's just where I have come out on the issue.

I have heard the expressions of superiority from minimalists for over fifty years. It's all along the lines of "If you know enough, you need less in the way of gear." The corrolary is often, "The truely knowledgable don't carry "big" knives (whatever "big" means) -- not that you said the second expressly. I guess you allow that it might just be "want" vs. "need."

And the argument proceeds from elements of truth. Tools without knowledge and experience are used less efficiently. It truly IS unlikely that you will need a sturdier knife than a good folder in your lifetime -- or liability insurance, a fire extinguisher, (recently) a spare tire, or an ambulance.

But there are those less typical, unlikely times. I have seen what sudden and unexpected emergencies do to "skills and knowledge." When an emergency comes, folks may lean on their tools to a previously-unexperienced degree. It's that "fight or flight" thing. In the outdoors, even five miles can be too far. You may be sick, injured, stiff with cold, scared, or just real excited. You may have the fate of others on your mind - dad, spouse, kids, friends. It can all get fairly strange. Stronger tools can, to a degree, make up for such limiting factors -- or for lack of knowledge and experience.

I just ask you to consider that situations alter cases. IMO it's real hard to generalize for others, even when quite knowledgable.

And can we agree that there are other alternatives to the 4" folder other than "large fixed-blade"?

So 4" folder vs. 4" fixed? "Large" vs. "small"? "Thin" vs. "thick" blade? Can't we allow room to say that it's a matter of legitmate judgment rather than "need" vs "want" -- much less knowledgable vs. ignorant?

And, to return to the topic, there are lots of small, utilitarian fixed-blade knives out there that are used in routine tasks every day. They are, generally speaking, cheaper, lighter, and stronger than the same quality and size blade in a folder -- and a lot easier for the maker to get "right." But, as I often do, you may still pick a folder for the reasons already mentioned above (such as OA length, social issues, laws, work rules, and/or safety).
 
With the same stock thickness, steel, grind, and heat treat, I don't see how a small fixed would be any stronger than a folder. The edge would chip, tip would snap off, or the whole blade would break through the middle before the pivot or lock gives way on a properly built folder or fixed.
 
J33psru1e said:
Sure thing tough guy.



It Sounds like you guys have this whole knife thing figured out. Off to collect to some stamps...
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it's my favorite line from the Jeffersons :D

The other comment goes pretty much with what I just posted. Folders cut just as well as fixed blades, they definitely have a place. Not everything requires the ability to pry, or even the need for a lock.
 
hardheart said:
With the same stock thickness, steel, grind, and heat treat, I don't see how a small fixed would be any stronger than a folder. The edge would chip, tip would snap off, or the whole blade would break through the middle before the pivot or lock gives way on a properly built folder or fixed.
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HH, I respectdfully disagree that a "properly built" folder is built to take every stress that a fixed-blade can take.

As I understand Alan's position (Alan, correct me if I'm wrong.) all that he feels he needs "in the woods" is a folding knife.

Suppose that I need to start a fire and, as a result of several days of heavy rain, the wood is wet. If I need to drive a knife into wood with a baton to get at the dry interior in order to start a fire, I may easily put stress on the pivots and lock that they are not designed or built to take. Surely, batoning a folder is more abusive than "flicking," and makers of some pretty hairy folders (CRK, for example) say flicking is abuse. All the ratings of locks I have seen are for static loading, not repeated impact loading.

Now I admit that I have batoned with folders. And the knives survived the experience. But I was being very careful and the situations were exercises --- stress-free.

I a real emergency, I want more margin for error. That is simply a personal choice that I am trying to explain.
 
Suppose that I need to start a fire and, as a result of several days of heavy rain, the wood is wet. If I need to drive a knife into wood with a baton to get at the dry interior in order to start a fire, I may easily put stress on the pivots and lock that they are not designed or built to take. Surely, batoning a folder is more abusive than "flicking," and makers of some pretty hairy folders (CRK, for example) say flicking is abuse. All the ratings of locks I have seen are for static loading, not repeated impact loading.
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The answer is simple....
1st, You carve you a splitting wedge from another piece of wood (probably should have did this the moment it started raining).
2nd, You use your folder just to bite in to the wood and start the split.
3rd, You then use your splitting wedge to do the rest.
Sometimes you can find a rock that works well as a splitting wedge too.

Batoning can break fixed-blades as well as folders, so why risk your knife...especially in an emergency situation?
 
allenC said:
The answer is simple....
1st, You carve you a splitting wedge from another piece of wood (probably should have did this the moment it started raining).
2nd, You use your folder just to bite in to the wood and start the split.
3rd, You then use your splitting wedge to do the rest.
Sometimes you can find a rock that works well as a splitting wedge too.

Batoning can break fixed-blades as well as folders, so why risk your knife...especially in an emergency situation?
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Alan, I'm not communicating well.

I am not saying it can't work. But it's much slower. Will the first wedges break requiring more time to make wedges? Will I have that time? Again, probably I would. I - me - myself - for no others - do not want to assume that additional risk when all I need to do to avoid it is carry the orthodox survival blade.

And while I have seen one recent instance of breaking a CS while batoning, I've been batoning fixed-blades since 1963 and have yet to damage one, much less break it.

Well, there was that one time when all I had to hammer with was a rock, but a belt sander cleaned up the spine.

Be happy with your folders.
 
allenC said:
This is only my personal opinion....

In my eyes, a man (or woman) who is carrying a folder, just looks prepared and rather self sufficient.
But a man (or a woman) with a fixed-blade strapped on their belt looks like a "Rambo" wannabe.

Even when hiking and camping a fixed-blade looks rather silly IMO.
As my father often said...
"You can always spot the inexperienced campers....they usually have the biggest knives".


Allen.
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These are symptoms of a serious case of Sheeple disease Yikes:eek: Are you a liberal?
 
I know that I carry a folder for almost anything, but that does not stop me from carrying and using my fixed blades and large ones at that. Everything has a place, even in the woods. Many people who are experienced in the woods carry alot more than a slip joint because they want too and its thier preference. I prefer to carry a six inch fixed blade when I am hiking along with my folder and sak. Do I need to? probably not, do I need the other folder? Nope. But I do because I might not want to push my sak and I feel more confidents in my locking folder and then in my fixed blade. Its not a matter of HAVING to have it, its just convenient. It doesnt make me less of an outdoorsman, and I dont feel the need to chop down a tr

HOWEVER. I tend to agree though that in MOST situations a folder will do just fine. I have been on camping trips with guys who had large fixed blades who did just what allenC stated and thats chop away at everything....did they need to? nope, and most of their cutting was done with a pocket knife. But that was them and not everyones like them. I think we are overgeneralizing both sides of the argument a bit. People are going to carry what they are comfortable with and what they like.
 
I am far from any kind of expert, but historically a fixed blade knife of medium to large size has been the choice for wilderness survival from Bowie knifes to Pilot Survival knives. Also, I haven't seen any sources of wilderness survival that advocate a folding knife over a fixed blade. I am a big fan of Doug Ritter and Equipped.com and he advises a good fixed blade knife for survival purposes. I am just not aware of any advantage a quality single blade folding knife has over a fixed blade knife of equal quality. I do believe that the fixed blade of equal quality is stronger and less likely to fail (no moving parts ...less to fail) if used in the same way as the folder. Of course there is always the possibility that people may choose to trade to heavily on that strength and end up overtaxing a fixed blade where they would have been more prudent with a folding knife.

Just an opinion.
 
barrabas74 said:
I have been on camping trips with guys who had large fixed blades who did just what allenC stated and thats chop away at everything....did they need to? nope, and most of their cutting was done with a pocket knife.
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Find an old wooden school desk - the kind where the top lifts up to reveal the storage area. There will be initials carved in the desk top - with a slip-joint knife. An idjit is an idjit, whether his knife folds or does not.
 
Carrying a fixed blade is something I do out of habit because this kind of knife is convenient, and it can do alot of work. I have no need to carry a hatchet in the woods because my fixed blade can do the work of a hatchet without carrying the weight.

I always carry a fixed blade on my belt when crossing frozen water. I broke through the ice nearly 20 years ago on the beaver pond. There was little warning as I went down and backward into the chilly water with cross country skis. The ice was so slippery that there was nothing to hold onto. I stabbed my knife into the rotting ice and pulled myself out. There is no need to carry the extra baggage like those ice picks designed for self extraction from the broken ice, a fixed blade can do that.

Fixed blades also look great on a person expecially if the sheath is well made and sized right for the knife and the person. I associate fixed blades with the days of past back to the pioneer times. I like the smell of leather and steel, and usually the smell of a wood fire isn't far off.:thumbup:
 
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