Is a single negative experience enough to throw you off a deal.

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

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I'm curious to know if a bad experience is enough to black list a group/location/deal for individual members here. As a Canadian I often see the kind of comments "I had a bad time shipping to (ex. Canada) once and will never again ship outside of the USA. I understand it is the sellers right, but it seems to me to be a rash decision. If I adopted that kind of mindset I would not be interested in BF specific knives, I would enter no giveaways, and would never again purchase directly from a custom maker. And in the end I would have lost out on some great knives, would have missed making connections with some great people, and would have missed on some great community experiences here.

I Have had makers take my money and not ship out my entire order, not return my knives when sent in for repair and not respond ever again, have won giveaways that never materialized (subsequently banned member), offered to send a gift- had the other members never send what they offered (not a trade but just an offer to reciprocate), and had unsharpened knives sent new from the maker.

All of these were dissapointing to me, but never had I thought that I would stop offering my own giveaways, offering gifts to others, or buying from individuals from the US (interestingly all of my transactions outside of the US have gone flawlessly). Maybe I'm more patient than others (or just a sucker), but I try to put things behind me. I've learnt new questions to ask, but it is still all about trust, and a few incidences hasn't shaken my trust yet, and doubt it will with this overall great community. This isn't to say that I will forget who has wronged me, and I do what I can to get restitution, but don't dwell on the negatives

What breaks your trust threshold? Has it been reached on this board?

(and please keep responces civil)
 
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You said it perfectly CUTS LIKE A KRIS. I am very interested to see what the response will be. For me also being Canadian it is disappointing seeing a knife I would buy but then I read those two words "ConUS only"....ouch. I hope we can have a healthy exchange of ideas with this thread.
 
Unpleasant experiences do leave a nasty taste. Sometimes we need to remember that the very nice and decent experiences DO outweigh the others.

Everything needs to be approached on individual merits and cases, blanket generalizations will limit you ultimately. On another forum somebody started messing me about and not delivering an item, my complaints were brushed aside, he then involved a mod who told me I was living in some crappy little country ,had no right to complain and that his friend was the greatest thing that had ever walked etc. Load more offensive, ignorant and downright racist abuse. I kept calm, persisted and pointed out undeniable facts. Then they changed their tune, a misunderstanding you understand buddy, we're all happy. Yes and the rest. I got my knife back and it was well done but I had no illusions, these were an unsavoury rude pair of bullshiters. I certainly would not boycott their state or nation simply because they happened to do this to me, unpleasantness&stupidity know no boundaries unfortunately.

I've received many kind words from people on this forum, support, know-how and encouragement, some gifts too. These are much valued. Had excellent and sincerely polite service (not the overdone syrupy type) from many American sellers private and retail, had a couple of less than diamond ones too. That's everywhere.I do understand if somebody just states CONUS only, fair enough. But, I do take offence if the seller or other loungers in the thread have to start this refrain of "Shipping to Europe is a nightmare and a thieves' charter, they don't have proper mail services" etc etc.

All the best, Will
 
Find myself in the strange position of being on both sides of the fence with this issue. On another forum, I've volunteered couple of times to be the collection point and remailer for group buy participants, including shipments to a half-dozen countries in Europe and Asia. And to help international friends take advantage of cheaper US prices on knives, flashlights etc, I've accepted deliveries on their behalf, and remailed to their respective countries. Right now, I'm assembling a consolidated package for three people in Europe, with a value exceeding $1000. I mention all this to illustrate that I'm not a ConUS-only kind of guy, and have empathy for gear-nuts living outside the US.

With all that said, if a non-US resident wanted to buy something from me here or on another forum, I might not refuse, but I wouldn't be exactly enthusiastic about it either. Why? Because of what I perceive to be disproportionate risk on me as the seller.

Consider this, from the sticky thread Mailing Security, "If [the seller] doesn't get his half of the deal to you, he owes you a full refund. It doesn't matter if the goods were lost in transit, stolen from your doorstep, or fell out of a poorly packed container. Until you get yours, he owes you. Even if the loss is not his fault." [Emphasis mine] Along with this, Paypal has a bias towards the buyer in a non-delivery dispute. My understanding is that if a buyer files a dispute over an undelivered package, the seller will lose, no matter the circumstances, unless he can produce tracking information and delivery confirmation. And if a lost package is insured, it falls on the seller to recover from the postal service.

Let me quickly say that I'm not opposed to these buyer protections (after all, I'm usually the buyer myself). But a large portion of international shipments (International First-Class and small-box flat-rate Priority Mail) aren't eligible for any of the optional services that protect the seller, e.g. tracking, delivery confirmation, signature-required at delivery and insurance. That means the seller assumes full responsibility for a process over which he has no control once the package is handed over to the post office.

It's a tough predicament that doesn't have an easy solution.
 
One bad experience with a person is enough to turn me off that person for good. With a country it's different. I once sold to Brazil and the thing took AGES to get there, to the point that a Paypal dispute was already initiated against me before it actually arrived. I had shipped the day after payment was received. I nevertheless sold to another Brazilian buyer and all went well. So I am not too enthusiastic about (in this case) Brazil, but I might risk it again if the end experience turned out ok. Also, the first buyer turned out to be a good guy who was genuinely worried he was not getting what he paid for, which I can certainly understand.

Funny thing is that shipping to the US is horribly slow as well. Items are on the plane from Holland usually within 2 days, but will routinely take 2 more weeks to arrive at their US destination. I usually warn US buyers up front, so they'll know what to expect and not get impatient. I have good experiences with USPS but quick they are not. :D Their T&T is good though.
 
Being that we, as non-US members, are the minority, we don't have much choice other than to keep an open mind regarding deals on BF. My most recent deal (on another site) was sent to Germany taking what I would consider a fairly lengthy time. In the end, it went well, but it reminded me why I don't lower values, falsify documents or go on the cheap to send pricey products. In the end, I'd be the one losing out if the knife goes "missing" and a claim is filed against me if I don't protect my interests. I think as long as the seller doesn't mind a little extra leg work and the buyer understands it might take a bit longer than normal when dealing with international deals, things work out the vast majority of the time.
 
Thanks for the different perspective all, I am glad to hear from everybody, hopefully some of our US members can give their take as well- this isn't meant to be a beat up American sellers or only non-US thread ;)

I fully agree as well that the seller has to protect themselves and is in their best interest to not falsify and adjust final price appropriately. I wanted to put my experiences out there to show that despite some negatives many positives can come from not letting a negative keep one from future positive experiences.

(now I just hope I don't come off as a rambling idiot, it never seems that my thoughts come across clearly when sending from my phone)
 
I have lost 3 knives in customs over the years but still ship out of the USA (just not on a certain auction site anymore). I like to use Express or Priority now, all the ones that where lost just went out regular first class. At least with Priority you can track it. It maybe more expensive, $30+ for priority and $40+ for Express but it is worth it if they person buying is willing to pay the expense. Time frame and payment also may play a part, someone selling something does not want to wait to use the cash they received from selling a item. It may take a while for some packages to clear customs and they might not want to wait. I think also half of the problem is scammers have gotten very sneaky these days and that scares a lot of people.

I also have to add my frustration with people not shipping to NY. It pains me to see this, sorry for that venting.
 
I have shipped a lot of knives all over the world. Especially having done the BF Traditional forum knife round up twice.

Never have had a problem except with custom delays. You can even insure the knives to most countries. Seems like most of the problems come in where the knives are not insured. Custom forms are filled out lacking the truth, etc.

I have always used priority or express without one issue.
 
We have stickies in the FEEDBACK forum that every seller should read, and it wouldn't hurt buyers to look at, either. There are certain basic procedures that yield good outcomes. Skimp, cheat, forget -- and take your chances.

A hundred good deals and one bad one. If the bad one is a loss of hundreds of dollar, it hurts. Some people only sell expensive knives because they need the money. It is easier to get the speed and security they are looking for by staying inside the US. But the extra effort to follow the proper procedures on occasional sales to good guys outside the US should be no big deal.

I can see where big money sellers and frequent sellers may get tired of the extra effort. We can only ask them to consider the individual asking to buy. If this is a regular here and a reliable buyer, make the effort, please.
 
I have NEVER had any trouble shipping knives to Canada. Even when y'all had a postal strike a couple of years back, it just took a little longer. It usually doesn't cost much more than shipping in the states. I am ALWAYS honest in my dealings and apperwork. Good Luck.
 
I live in Canada but have a mailing address in Northport WA. It's a long drive to pick up knives but worth it, as otherwise i would not have the collection i do. The majority of the truly collectible knives i see on ebay are "Conus" only. Also, when re-entering Canada i declare the knives and if the Border Guard wants to see a knife, i am right there to ensure it's careful handling. This is faster and safer than the 3 week delay in Canada Post Customs for mailed items
For me a deal breaker and 'forever avoid' is any seller who is dishonest or who purposely omits significant flaws in a knife; i.e. is deceitful. An honest mistake does not fall into this category.
roland
 
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tendy said:
You said it perfectly CUTS LIKE A KRIS. I am very interested to see what the response will be. For me also being Canadian it is disappointing seeing a knife I would buy but then I read those two words "ConUS only"....ouch. I hope we can have a healthy exchange of ideas with this thread.
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I am about to ship a knife to your country but I emailed the person and told him if customs takes it he is on his own and that is the only way I would sell him the knife. we will see what he wants to do. so far I have not lost one knife to customs yet and yes it will have a tracking number with it.
 
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The main thing Cdn. Customs looks for is an Auto or flickable knife. So if applicable seller should always tighten the pivot.
roland
 
Bastid said:
You can even insure the knives to most countries. Seems like most of the problems come in where the knives are not insured.
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That's where I'm left feeling a bit uneasy. Unless I'm overlooking something, can't insure anything sent International First-Class or Small-box flat-rate International Priority, so buyer has to opt for medium- or large-box International Priority to qualify for optional insurance. And tracking not available for any size flat-rate Priority box (except the customs form number does provide tracking within the US; once leaves for overseas destination, tracking stops -- that's been my experience anyway).

And I know "Registered" is available option on International Priority of all sizes, but despite searching post office site, I'm can't find what real benefit Registered provides on these shipments (or is it simply tracking by another name in this instance?). Input from those in the know would be appreciated.
 
xbanker, Express Mail International should give you the security you need.

Registered is the highest level of tracking and security. EVERY postal employee taking charge of a Registered piece has to sign for that piece. Wherever it might go missing, the last employee to sign for it has got some 'splainin' to do.

(I accompanied a Postal employee delivering a small Registered box hand to hand to its addressee. He would not release it to the front desk. It had to be signed for by the named addressee. The box contained a $25,000 wristwatch.)
 
xbanker said:
That's where I'm left feeling a bit uneasy. Unless I'm overlooking something, can't insure anything sent International First-Class or Small-box flat-rate International Priority, so buyer has to opt for medium- or large-box International Priority to qualify for optional insurance. And tracking not available for any size flat-rate Priority box (except the customs form number does provide tracking within the US; once leaves for overseas destination, tracking stops -- that's been my experience anyway).

And I know "Registered" is available option on International Priority of all sizes, but despite searching post office site, I'm can't find what real benefit Registered provides on these shipments (or is it simply tracking by another name in this instance?). Input from those in the know would be appreciated.
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now the person says he cant pay me in us money. I give up. up in canda they cant get us dollars at the bank?? they dont have money orders paid in us dollars??
 
richard thurman said:
I am about to ship a knife to your country but I emailed the person and told him if customs takes it he is on his own and that is the only way I would sell him the knife. we will see what he wants to do. so far I have not lost one knife to customs yet and yes it will have a tracking number with it.
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richard thurman said:
now the person says he cant pay me in us money. I give up. up in canda they cant get us dollars at the bank?? they dont have money orders paid in us dollars??
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1. Saying that he is on his own if customs takes it may be hard to enforce. PayPal or example won't agree to it.

2. When difficult conditions pop up, especially late in the deal, I would rate he transaction unreliable, and give up.
Anything that makes me worry that more problems at the delivery end will lose me money makes it all not worthwhile.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
1. Saying that he is on his own if customs takes it may be hard to enforce. PayPal or example won't agree to it.

2. When difficult conditions pop up, especially late in the deal, I would rate he transaction unreliable, and give up.
Anything that makes me worry that more problems at the delivery end will lose me money makes it all not worthwhile.
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and that is why I put in my auction sales add I only ship with in the usa so I dont have any problems like this.
 
Richard, we can get US money orders, so I am not sure what the issue is with your perspective purchaser, that kind of response strikes me as odd as well. Unfortunate that you don't wish to do business with me because of other individuals, but I do understand, and greatly appreciate when others do take a chance on me. Thank you for your input.
 
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