Is a stock removal bowie a real bowie?

Shing

Shing

Joined
Feb 2, 2003
Messages
2,261
I like making bowies but I don't have the facilities to do any forging, in the minds of collectors and users here, would they consider a stock removal bowies less desirable than a forged bowie all other things being equal?
 
A bowie is a style. How you end up there shouldn't matter. I don't think anybody would turn down their nose at a bowie ground by D.E. Henry, would they? I know I wouldn't.
 
Don't you have to be able to paddle a canoe with it before you can call it a "Bowie"?
 
I'm aligned with Dan. The bowie style of knife can be delivered by either method and will find favour or not with different users and collectors depending what their likes and dislikes are, one method does not make it more of a "bowie" than the other.

There is no hiding from the fact that certain people prefer forged to stock removal or vice versa, but often this boils down to personal preference.

There are discussions regarding the benefits of forging versus stock removal in terms of flexibility of design, grain, structure and flow etc. which is often counterbalanced by reference to the unsuitablity for forging of some of the proven "super steels" used in stock removal and more than adequate flexibility in design .... but these do not centre around specific styles of knife. Its all very interesting but not a deciding factor for me.

I personally collect forged bowies for three reasons 1) I really like the whole "hammer and forge" tradition, and the way the ABS holds it all together. 2) They always appeal to "me" more than stock removal pieces - the flat grinds, finish and designs. 3) There are just so many nice knives out there I had to narrow down the field! :D ....... this is far more about personal preference than technical argument.

Stephen
 
I agree with Stephen.

This being said, even forged knives have to be ground to some extent. You could totally make a ground knife that would be exactly like a forged knife: make sure you use flat grind rather than hollow grinde, tapper the blade, etc.

Historically, I think most of those knives were ground (on very big wheels IIRC, so it was basically a flat grind profile).
 
A forged knife is more "handmade"... in my view. If I were making a knife, (and I don't) I would have trouble saying I made it, if I didn't forge the steel also.
David
 
Danbo, Stephen and Joss all have it pretty well covered. I don't think there would be much controversy in describing this Alex Daniels knife as a "real bowie" (I can't imagine what else you'd call it) or in saying that he made it. I prefer forged blades but I sure don't thumb my nose at stock removal blades.

orig.jpg


pic from knifeart.com

Roger
 
A true bowie is big enough to use as a dinner plate :)

A manly man would only want a bowie forged from large stock , not that girlie ready-made flat stuff :).
 
Forged bowies seem to get more cash,with the exception of Alex Daniels.I own forged & stock removal bowies and depending on the style of the bowie I like both. :cool:
 
I only collect forged bowies, so I would personally not be interested in a stock removal one. That doesn't mean that it isn't a real bowie though.
 
The problem with many ground knives is that:

1) They are often deeply hollow ground, which IMHO just doesn't look right.
2) They often have no distal tapper because the makers don't bother and the customers don't care - IMHO this screws up both balance and esthetics.
3) They are often made of stainless steel, which has more potential for being too hard (note that properly heat treated, I think most stainless are as good as carbon). Often the makers have no knowledge of or interest in metalurgy, and that can reflect badly in the steel selected and type of HT.

Notice a common thread here? None of those have to happen with ground knives, as long as the maker has clear ideas and is competent - and there are many such makers out there.
 
I don't think I would personally buy a bowie unless it was forged, that's just my preference, to me, bowies should be forged.

That is not to say that a stock removal bowie isnt a real bowie, nor that it won't be appreciated by many, just not me. :)

However, occasionally, I do see a SR bowie I like, in fact, True North posted one by believe it or not, Tom Overeyender.

TRO6742.jpg


TRO6743.jpg
 
I own some gorgeous Bowies from each type. Personally, I think hollow ground blades are nicer looking than the flat ground blades. For whatever reason there aren't too many forged hollow ground Bowies it seems.

Also, as a collector and not a user of my Bowies, I really don't care for the high carbon steel's propensity to rust.

Both are very nice, IMO.
 
What a bowie is, is kind of an opinion, really.
If you look at the SOG bowie (the company, not the military), to me it looks like a fighting knife, I wouldn't call it bowie, I don't really think it's long enough or traditional looking enough to earn the name.
Now Ron Andersen would, we argued about it, and quite frankly, he kind of gave me a hard time about it, but what's done is done.
 
I'm a forged blade sort of guy although I own a few stock removal Bowies.Nice ones at that.
Randy
 
A bowie is a style, not a method of making a knife. I've yet to see anyone walking down the street with a bowie strapped on for personal self defense. Remember the bowie is a fighting blade, not a utility piece. When it comes to forged vs. stock removal, since virutally all bowies are art pieces and will never be used, thus "the performance of the forged blade" is not an issue. With the performance issue ignored, think of it this way. Is a statue any less of piece of art than a painting, because the statue was carved out of marble? Why would a knife, carved out of steel be any less a piece of art than one forged?
 
I disagree with Brownshoe on two points. First, the performance of the forged blade is, IMHO, a myth. Blades can be just as performing wether they're forged or ground, as long as the steel is the right one for the use, and is HT'ed correctly.

Second, I think that performance is important, even if the piece is never used (and there are quite a few high quality bowies from top makers who get used). It's like having a Ferrari - it doesn't matter that you're not going to drive it at 200 mph - it's cool to know you can.

Personally, I think most bowies, historically, were carried to be used in a variety of situation, including as camp knives, and to butcher large game.
 
Joss said:
performance of the forged blade is, IMHO, a myth. QUOTE]


Wrong

I'll give you a prime example.

I have a friend who wanted a very small 3 fingered utility knife. Being it would be so small, I chose to just grind this blade. I always etch my blades (as should all makers of carbon steel blades) to check the hardening zone. I also check the blade with a rockwell hardness tester, but that's beside the point...

Anyway.....The steel used was 1095. The blade showed some very distinctive alloy bands. These bands could be felt with my finger as they etched much more than the rest of the blade.

Fon an experiment, I forged a blade from the same piece of stock at the cuttoff point of said stock. Through the forging process the alloy bands were deminished to the point of were they were barely even noticeable. Forging improves the steel vs simple stock removal without a doubt by making it more homogenous.

If you are buying a highly polished stock removed carbon steel blade from a maker, ask if he etches his blades. You may not know what hides beneath the polish.
Click to expand...
 
A couple more stock removal Bowies. Yep, they're Bowies. :D
Top: Bob Lay
Bottom: D'Holder

CB_248.jpg

site1015.jpg
 
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