Is a stock removal bowie a real bowie?

To me, a Bowie is a state of mind or a sense of dominance...you know what I'm talking about if you ever held a large custom Bowie forged from steel and sweat, not from an air conditioned machine shop with $20,000 worth of high end equipment and CNC machines.

I witnessed the making of the Alex Daniels Bowie that Keith Montgomery had pictured. Yes, it is stainless and Alex will tell you that it is a reproduction of an antique Bowie.
The original is carbon steel, as it should be. Reproductions can be made of anything because they are just that.

My two cents.

Dale
 
Dale Baxter said:
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To me, a Bowie is a state of mind or a sense of dominance...you know what I'm talking about if you ever held a large custom Bowie forged from steel and sweat, not from an air conditioned machine shop with $20,000 worth of high end equipment and CNC machines.
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Interesting! I didn't realize that D'Holder or Bob or Alex uses CNC machines to make their knives? I wonder if they realize this? :confused:
 
Mark Williams said:
Through the forging process the alloy bands were deminished to the point of were they were barely even noticeable. Forging improves the steel vs simple stock removal without a doubt by making it more homogenous.
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Mark, in your opinion was hitting it with a hammer or thermal cycling that eliminated the alloy banding?
 
Chuck Bybee said:
Mark, in your opinion was hitting it with a hammer or thermal cycling that eliminated the alloy banding?
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I'll try just doing a bunch of thermal cycles and see what happens. I'll let you know Chuck.
 
RWS said:
Interesting! I didn't realize that D'Holder or Bob or Alex uses CNC machines to make their knives? I wonder if they realize this? :confused:
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I think they would know if they were using CNC machines. :p

Most makers don't have the money for CNC machines, and besides, CNC machines are impractical for one-ofs. Most of the stock removal makerrs that I know don't have air conditioning either, though a few do have $20,000.00 worth of machinery. A bunch of the steel bashers I know have more than $20,000.00 worth of equipment as well, what with all their hydraulic presses and air hammers.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I think they would know if they were using CNC machines. :p

Most makers don't have the money for CNC machines, and besides, CNC machines are impractical for one-ofs. Most of the stock removal makerrs that I know don't have air conditioning either, though a few do have $20,000.00 worth of machinery. A bunch of the steel bashers I know have more than $20,000.00 worth of equipment as well, what with all their hydraulic presses and air hammers.
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What? You mean that the hammer guys use hydraulic presses and air hammers???? I thought they used just a regular hammer. :p
 
Coming from Sheffield, England, I suppose I think a "real" bowie is made of hande made shear or crucible steel, hand forged in a little mester by a man or women, yes women formed an important part of the workforce in Sheffield using a small coal forge and a few hammers and a anvil. I would start forging in a heart beat if I had the facilities although getting hold of shear steel is even more difficult than cast steel.

Heres a link to a famous Sheffield tourist attraction, I remember about 20 years ago, the late Fred James displayed a lot of bowie knives at a fair held there, but at the time I didn't have 50 pounds ($100) for one of his big bowies.

http://www.simt.co.uk/abbeydale/index.html
 
Shing said:
Coming from Sheffield, England, I suppose I think a "real" bowie is made of hande made shear or crucible steel, hand forged in a little mester by a man or women, yes women formed an important part of the workforce in Sheffield using a small coal forge and a few hammers and a anvil. I would start forging in a heart beat if I had the facilities although getting hold of shear steel is even more difficult than cast steel.
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Shing,

The Bowies from Sheffield England were copies or imitations of real bowies being made in the US.

Sheffield Bowies were knock-offs! :p
 
The fact of the matter is simple:
The Bladesmiths and the stock removal guys will continue to make Bowies the way they were trained...and the customers will defend them and their ways.

A Bladesmiths view is insignificant when he is talking to a collector with 40+ stainless knives in his collection...and vice versa.


2 1/2 cents

Dale
 
Dale Baxter said:
The fact of the matter is simple:
The Bladesmiths and the stock removal guys will continue to make Bowies the way they were trained...and the customers will defend them and their ways.

A Bladesmiths view is insignificant when he is talking to a collector with 40+ stainless knives in his collection...and vice versa.


2 1/2 cents

Dale
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Personally, I don't think your point of view is insignificant.
With your implication that makers who use the stock removal method only use very expensive CNC equipment to mass produce their knives while sitting around in an air conditioned room and really don't work as hard as bladesmiths to make a knife, that point of view to me isn't insignificant. I believe it's very inaccurate.

What do I know? I only collect them.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I think they would know if they were using CNC machines. :p
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Not neccessarily Keith, ever heard of sleep-grinding? Like grinding your teeth when asleep, but in the morning, you have a knife under your pillow... :)
 
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Megalobyte said:
Not neccessarily Keith, ever heard of sleep-grinding? Like grinding your teeth when asleep, but in the morning, you have a knife under your pillow... :)
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You and Keith are being very bad in here! :D
 
RWS said:
You and Keith are being very bad in here! :D
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Actually RWS, I neglected to add that most of the makers who are indeed: "sleep grinding" aren't even aware they have this disorder, and so, the myth of the bowie-fairy came into being... :eek: :)
 
I used to wake up in the morning and there was indeed a knife produced over night. It was the bourbon fairy :)

I'm lucky to still have all my digits
 
Hey RWS,That D'Holder Bowie is Too Freakin Cool.I haven't seen too many Big ones like that from him. :cool:
 
RWS said:
Personally, I don't think your point of view is insignificant.
With your implication that makers who use the stock removal method only use very expensive CNC equipment to mass produce their knives while sitting around in an air conditioned room and really don't work as hard as bladesmiths to make a knife, that point of view to me isn't insignificant. I believe it's very inaccurate.

What do I know? I only collect them.
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I had no implication in mind, it was simply another method of producing a Bowie...and perhaps a bit of jealousy (I don't have much machinery). I also collect knives and have a few Bowies that were not forged, but all are reproductions of antique bowies.

3 cents

Dale
 
Dale Baxter said:
not from an air conditioned machine shop with $20,000 worth of high end equipment and CNC machines.
Dale
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You won't get much in the way of high end cnc machines for $20,000... try adding a few zeros
:p
 
I don't know if I'm out of line saying this being that I've only been making knives a little over 2 years, but if you (and you know who you are) believe that custom stock removal knives are done with automated equipment such as CNC and that there is no sweat put into our work then it sounds to me like you need to get educated on how we make our knives. :barf:
Mike Coughlin
 
After being thoroughly confused about Damascus and stack removal for 2 years, I believe Goddard (or Fowler, sorry - do not want to miss quote either) stated that the heat treatment of the particular steel is the key - not pattern welding. Most people that forge do so in order to work with Damascus (most-not all). This is said as long as the terms that Joss described.

A knife is a knife is a knife "if" the metal is understood as far as the best purpose that it can serve the particular knife and function of that knife is taken into consideration. Any knife that is made with the a lack of understanding of the metalurgy of that steel is questionable in quality.

What Fowler has done with 52100 is incredible. The same goes with other makers that use one steel and push it to the limits and beyond, some times. As I understand a bowie - size, functions, overall shape (though they differ greatly) there are many steels that can make a great blade - forged or not.

All this just popped out of a rookies mouth that finally took the plung into making afer reading and reading and reading for what seems like forever. Have a lot more to learn, bu I flet comfortable commenting on this thread

William12
 
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