Is addiction a crime or a disease?

[Charlie Mike]

Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored. My State has the "3 strikes" rule. If you get 3 felony convictions, you go for life. It got me thinking about how many o our felons are drug offenders. Yes, dope does go with other illegal activities, I'll be the first to tell you. My question is are we punshing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?

 

[Josh K]

Dealing is one thing, possession is another. The law gives little distinction between the two.

It should not be societies burden to rehabilitate drug addicts.

Some people are more easily addicted then others. That doesn't make it right. Were'd the first hit come from? Why?

That being said, I wish you all the best staying clean. :thumbup:

 

[Charlie Mike]

Dealing is one thing, possession is another. The law gives little distinction between the two.

Say you got your dope bundled in 2 bags. Then you could get popped for dealing. Say you have a scale to make sure everyone stays honest, you get popped for dealing.

 

[jill jackson]

A lot of people can drink without becoming alcoholics, the law doesn't imprison those that do become addicted to alcohol, because it's legal and taxed.
Drugs are illegal so they go after everybody that uses or deals. Is this being hypocritical? Sure, it is. All the problems caused by tobacco and alcohol and they tax those and benefit from people's addictions and punish the users of other substances they deem harmful and therefore illegal.
So yes, I think it's wrong to make felons out of people merely for the use of any substance. The resulting criminal behaviour from using and being addicted to any substance is the only thing that should be punished, just as people that drink and exercise poor judgement under the influence are punished. I can't see imprisoning people that are merely addicts for possession alone.

 

[Charlie Mike]

I'd really like to have some LEOs chime in, esp MORIMOTOM since he is also from/in CA.

 

[roughedges]

Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored. My State has the "3 strikes" rule. If you get 3 felony convictions, you go for life. It got me thinking about how many o our felons are drug offenders. Yes, dope does go with other illegal activities, I'll be the first to tell you. My question is are we punshing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?

IMO, addiction itself isn't a crime. The crime component comes into play when addicts choose to do other things, such as dealing or stealing or doctor shopping, to try and continue their behavior or just as a result of drug addled decision making.

I see addiction as a personal and social problem that inevitably leads to crime. Even an otherwise law-abiding narcotic addict commits a crime when he or she purchases pills illegally or doctor shops.

As for not being able to help it... as a past addict myself, I have to say that that belief is, imo, a bunch of BS. For the addictive personality, the drugs are certainly skewing perception and decision making, and certainly deny us clarity, but "I just can't help it" or "I need it" is simply justification for irrational and destructive behavior and not in any way the truth. I look at it like this.... one day I woke up fiending and asked myself, "which is stronger, my will or the drugs?". I didn't like the answer the itchy little demon immediately responded with, got mad and then started the process of getting clean.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

When I was a postal service manager, I had to deal with people who had problems with alcohol and drugs. For postal purposes, we treated them all the same: if they affected your work, you were subject to the regular progressive disciplinary procedure.

We also had PAR (Program for Alcoholic Recovery) which was expanded to EAP (Employee Assistance program) which dealt with drug and psychological problems as well. The counselors were generally recovered addicts themselves and some were real characters.

Their policy on discipline was simple: if we didn't take action which ultimately threatened the addict's job, and thereby the money he needed for his addiction, that addict would not take recovery seriously.

Never mind the moralizing. It's not just the attendant criminality. There is a serious element of loss of self-control, whether it's drugs or alcohol, and left to itself, will destroy lives and families, and lead to early death.

Whining about hypocrisy is beside the point. Society makes decisions over many years as to how it will deal with these differences and problems, and that's what we have to work with. A slap on the wrist can lead to a death in the gutter.

 

[Fraser]

Addiction is a voluntary act. Drug addiction is particularly wrong in that the addict voluntarily breaks the laws of society. This makes the addict's behavior criminal. Therefore, the addict should be punished.

The economic costs to society dealing with addicts are huge.

 

[KeithAM]

IIRC, the U.S. Supreme Court held long ago that it is unconstitutional to criminalize addiction. However, possession is illegal, as is possession with intent to distribute. If you have enough dope, intent to distribute may be inferred.

Regardless of the California 3-strikes rule, being a felon in possession of a firearm is also a FEDERAL crime, and I believe the mandatory minimum starts at five years, and there's no parole in the federal system. For a "career criminal", the mandatory minimum is 15 years.

 

[jill jackson]

I've seen way more people have their lives destroyed by alcohol than illegal drugs.
They can easily and cheaply buy the booze and they do. They may run into some behavioural problems that get them briefly locked up and fined. Most quickly learn to avoid this type of behaviour and continue drinking. Very few keep driving while intoxicated long enough to serve prison time. (the one thing that will get you imprisoned, if you continue) The fact is if you want to be an alcoholic you can be legally, all you need is the money. An illegal drug user cannot do this. If they are caught with the drug they go to jail. In the case of a drug that's a felony to possess, get caught enough and you can find yourself imprisoned for life.

 

[roughedges]

Addiction is a voluntary act. Drug addiction is particularly wrong in that the addict voluntarily breaks the laws of society. This makes the addict's behavior criminal. Therefore, the addict should be punished.

The economic costs to society dealing with addicts are huge.

Being an addict is not illegal in our society. There are plenty of addicts, alcoholics and pill poppers both, who maintain their addiction legally. It is the maintenance of addiction, or procurement of substances (or orther illegal choices made while under the influence), by illicit means that should be and is punished by the judicial system.

Addicts need help whether willingly or otherwise. Criminal addicts need punishment and help so that they don't return to their old behavior and continue to add to the aforementioned economic costs. I hope you can see the distinction.

 

[yablanowitz]

Addiction is a voluntary act. Drug addiction is particularly wrong in that the addict voluntarily breaks the laws of society. This makes the addict's behavior criminal. Therefore, the addict should be punished.

The economic costs to society dealing with addicts are huge.

Not always. Anyone can be in an accident, and most of the heavy-duty painkillers used in hospitals after major injuries are addictive. Several of the addicts I have known got that way by starting with prescribed drugs. When they decide to break the law to obtain more of their drug instead of seeking help to quit their drug, that is when they become criminals. Alcoholics and smokers are privileged that their drugs can be obtained legally, but they too become criminals if they decide to break the law to obtain more of their drug (such as robbing a liquor store or shoplifting cigarettes).

People who become addicted to illegal drugs don't have that advantage. Unless someone tied them down and shot them up, they made the decision to become a criminal when they elected to take that first hit. They probably don't view it that way, but it is a fact.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your recovery Charlie Mike. Meth has the worst relapse rate of any drug that I've heard of.

 

[YayILikePie]

IMO, addiction itself isn't a crime. The crime component comes into play when addicts choose to do other things, such as dealing or stealing or doctor shopping, to try and continue their behavior or just as a result of drug addled decision making.

I gotta go with roughedges on this one. It seems like addiction itself isn't criminal, but what often piggybacks with the addiction are criminal acts in order to sustain the addiction. However, to add to the title of this thread, I feel that it isn't necessarily a crime OR a disease, but something that falls into a different category altogether. To me, it seems like it's more an issue with mental willpower coupled with a biological attachment to certain chemicals.

 

[Ed Gordon]

Not a crime in my opinion until you cross over and negatively affect anyone around you. I think it is all but impossible to have an addiction without hurting or costing people around you something.

Like a friend of mine told me once....when you find yourself in a hole - stop digging.

 

[Charlie Mike]

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your recovery Charlie Mike. Meth has the worst relapse rate of any drug that I've heard of.

I stopped being a crankster on 1-1-07. Between then and 10-08, there have been less than a handful of slips, but today I can say I have no urge to smoke the biker dope anymore. The last few times I had "tried" it again only further convinced me I shouldn't have done it in the first place. I can't do meth and carry on with my responsiblities. I value my life as it is now more than I want that hit.

I am also a medicinal marijuana card holder under Prop 215 in CA. Does this change things from my original post? The Dr. that gave me the recommendation studied under the shrink I am under at the VA. He is one of the top 10 experts on PTSD in the country. I don't consider my use to be abuse. It is more of a sleep aid for me. It helps me from getting up 3-4 times a night.

 

[T.K.C.]

Addiction is a disease.

 

[baliodude]

What If I am addicted to having sex with children? There you go. It has the elements of Addiction: losing self control, is it a disease?

Sorry guys I just wanted to through another one in.
Actually, Some paedophiles have less choice in being what they are than recreational drug addicts. Some of the formers have been abused as children bla bla bla.....

I am just thinking aloud. No opinion so far.

 

[roughedges]

What If I am addicted to having sex with children? There you go. It has the elements of Addiction: losing self control, is it a disease?

Sorry guys I just wanted to through another one in.
Actually, Some paedophiles have less choice in being what they are than recreational drug addicts. Some of the formers have been abused as children bla bla bla.....

I am just thinking aloud. No opinion so far.

I'm going to have to moderate my response because this is the wrong forum to tell you what I really think.

The only similarity between drug addiction and pedophilia is that they are both compulsive behaviors. Other than that, I'm not sure what your point is, if you are actually trying to make one.

Some pedophiles have been abused as children, some drug addicts have been abused as children, some businessmen have been abused as children, some movie stars have been.... do you see where I'm going with this?

 

[baliodude]

I'm going to have to moderate my response because this is the wrong forum to tell you what I really think.

The only similarity between drug addiction and pedophilia is that they are both compulsive behaviors. Other than that, I'm not sure what your point is, if you are actually trying to make one.

Some pedophiles have been abused as children, some drug addicts have been abused as children, some businessmen have been abused as children, some movie stars have been.... do you see where I'm going with this?

I am saying that drug addicts and paedophiles are all criminals. As long as they have a choice. Why do you think drug addicts are less criminals? They both affect the life of others. If you think drug addicts do not, then you are wrong

 

[roughedges]

I am saying that drug addicts and paedophiles are all criminals. As long as they have a choice. Why do you think drug addicts are less criminals? They both affect the life of others. If you think drug addicts do not, then you are wrong

Wow. It's obvious to me that you: 1. have not read my posts here and 2. have little to no idea what you're talking about. I'm left at a point where I can not make any further response without disturbing the decorum of the forum and being infracted. I'll leave it to people with more patience than I to try and explain it to you.

And welcome to my ignore list.