Is addiction a crime or a disease?

Wow. It's obvious to me that you: 1. have not read my posts here and 2. have little to no idea what you're talking about. I'm left at a point where I can not make any further response without disturbing the decorum of the forum and being infracted. I'll leave it to people with more patience than I to try and explain it to you.

And welcome to my ignore list.

You sound very upset. I am sorry for that.
 
I believe that CM did not ask for opinions about his addiction. He asked about restoring his gun rights.

After 9/11, one of our customers tried to buy a used rifle action from us. The CA DOJ rejected the sale because he had a misdemeanor assault charge on his record from 20 years before. No conviction, just a charge. The charge was bogus, but that didn't make any difference. He had purchased guns many times over the years, but after 9/11, the DOJ dug deeper. He had to get a lawyer to have the charge expunged.

Here's the problem with CM's case. He has a conviction. The only way he can restore his gun rights is to have the conviction pardoned and all records of it expunged or sealed. Even if he is pardoned in the state, if any record exists, Federal law would still prevent him from owning a firearm.

He really needs to talk to a lawyer who deals with this stuff.

Every state has its own process for felons to petition the government to restore their civil rights. Rights can be affected by the expunging or sealing of records which are judicial actions or pardons from the governor, which are executive actions. The level of restoration may be affected by the crime itself, whether it is a violent crime a drug crime or a crime of dishonesty.

Read more: http://peacesecurity.suite101.com/article.cfm/gun_ownership_by_convicted_felons#ixzz0I9VvmDWx&C
 
The only thing that is upsetting me is that this thread is not in another forum where I can tell you what I really think. Other than that, I'm just not blessed with a particularly high tolerance for absurdity.
 
Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored. My State has the "3 strikes" rule. If you get 3 felony convictions, you go for life. It got me thinking about how many o our felons are drug offenders. Yes, dope does go with other illegal activities, I'll be the first to tell you. My question is are we punshing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?

Charlie Mike, I think I see the problem. TOO MUCH INFORMATION!

I think if you had limited your post to this, Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored, a lot of the nonsense could have been avoided.

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Hi Uffda-

CM ended his original post with:
My question is are we punshing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?

As a result of these questions, I think it inevitable that drug addiction itself is going to end up being discussed and assumed it was his intent.
 
Hi Uffda-

CM ended his original post with:

As a result of these questions, I think it inevitable that drug addiction itself is going to end up being discussed and assumed it was his intent.

As usual, I could be wrong. We have two different questions and everyone zeroed in the 2nd one. I zeroed in on the gun rights question because that's where my interests lie.

Let's see what CM has to say.
 
I would like to get my gun rights back and I know it may take more than 10 years. No prob. As far as that ?, can a person who has been an addict be trusted by his/her peers to posess a weapon?
 
I would like to get my gun rights back and I know it may take more than 10 years. No prob. As far as that ?, can a person who has been an addict be trusted by his/her peers to posess a weapon?

I'm surely biased but I see no reason why not provided that they are not currently using. One of the reasons I have no issue with talking about my past problems is because I like to see who will judge me poorly based upon that alone. I figure that anyone who will do so is not anyone with whom I'd wish to be friends or acquaintances. Also, it keeps me honest. :)

However, as I recall, the felony you were convicted of was not a drug charge so I'm not sure what good asking does unless you just want the opinions or acceptance of your peers (fwiw, you have it from me). If I were you, I'd try and locate a lawyer who is familiar with, and has worked on, cases such as yours that is licensed to practice in CA.
 
Regardless of what the felony conviction was for, meth addiction would be a concern for me in deciding whether I could trust that person with a gun. I personally wouldn't trust that individual until they had been clean for five years. Why that number? Because meth has a 90% relapse rate at five years. If the individual has stayed clean that long, I would trust him to remain clean. Then it would be up to other considerations to determine if I would trust him with a gun. I know a number of people with clean records who don't drink, smoke or take drugs that still can't be trusted with a firearm. ;)

I try not to generalize about people. I don't always succeed, but it is always my goal.
 
I'm surely biased but I see no reason why not provided that they are not currently using. One of the reasons I have no issue with talking about my past problems is because I like to see who will judge me poorly based upon that alone. I figure that anyone who will do so is not anyone with whom I'd wish to be friends or acquaintances. Also, it keeps me honest. :)

I agree completely. I like brutal honesty.
 
Not always. Anyone can be in an accident, and most of the heavy-duty painkillers used in hospitals after major injuries are addictive. Several of the addicts I have known got that way by starting with prescribed drugs. When they decide to break the law to obtain more of their drug instead of seeking help to quit their drug, that is when they become criminals. Alcoholics and smokers are privileged that their drugs can be obtained legally, but they too become criminals if they decide to break the law to obtain more of their drug (such as robbing a liquor store or shoplifting cigarettes).

People who become addicted to illegal drugs don't have that advantage. Unless someone tied them down and shot them up, they made the decision to become a criminal when they elected to take that first hit. They probably don't view it that way, but it is a fact.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your recovery Charlie Mike. Meth has the worst relapse rate of any drug that I've heard of.


This is still a conscious, voluntary action. I am a recovering teenage alcoholic, so I understand the struggles. Honestly, I wish they would tax the hell out of alcohol to stay the rate of addiction, thoug it probably wouldn't work...I don't think that addiction should be a crime...until it affects your life. My dad was an alcoholic, but we always had everything we needed as kids except, of course a sober father. He should have been penalized for it. It caused a ton of problems that my brothers and I will have to deal with forever. Either way, good luck and God be with ya on this one CM, it's a long road...
 
I would like to get my gun rights back and I know it may take more than 10 years. No prob. As far as that ?, can a person who has been an addict be trusted by his/her peers to posess a weapon?

This is a real tough question, man. Think about yourself. Was there a time in your past that you look back on now and realize that you shouldn't have had a butter knife, much less a firearm? Think of the people you got stoned with. When I look back on people from my past, I would generally be terrified if they had weapon. Of course, if they were willing to receive/receiving some form of counseling and support outside of myself, I might change my views...
 
I wouldn't look at my fellow druggies, just myself here. I did carry and use a full auto weapon in the service of our old emporer, then again I was 100% sober.
 
My question is are we punishing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?
Pretty tough questions there CM. :eek:

I think that we are punishing people for the behaviors associated with procuring what is needed to feed addiction rather than punishing people for being addicts.

Being addicted to anything is bad, and we are all addicted to something to some extent. What we are addicted to, and the extent to which we are addicted, are factors in how our addictions affect others. It is when our addictions become so overpowering that they have a substantial negative affect on the lives of others is the real problem.

I do not believe that most addicts are incapable of abstaining from those behaviors that serve to fill the void that addicts feel. I also don't believe that someone fighting inner battles should be permanently blocked from owning a firearm. If someone can show the strength of will and character to raise themselves up they can also show that they are responsible enough to own/carry a firearm.

These are just my personal opinions and I respect those who feel differently. In the matter of full disclosure, though I've been clean for for several years I still consider myself an addict as I am one of those who follows the once an addict/always an addict line of thought.

Good ups to you for fighting your Demons CM. I wish you the best of luck in following the path that you are on. :thumbup:
 
I just read some of the posts on the subject in Knife Laws and noticed that you would like to own percussion revolver, so I did a search. Even though the BATF may not consider a muzzle loader or antique style revolver a firearm, the prohibition of felons to own a firearm still applies. You can own black powder, percussion caps and lead balls, but nothing to shoot them.

Edit: It appears that I am wrong about the powder. Courts have ruled that gun powder is ammunition and felons are prohibited from owning ammo. Oh well......

One question. How old were you when you were convicted? If you were under 18, there may be hope.
 
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Raoul Duke said it best: You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye.

or a shotgun. You're not living until you've had a tweaker put a shotgun in your face over a minor disagreement. :rolleyes:

It's almost apples and oranges, Dougo. Someone currently under the influence in possesion of a firearm and someone with a past addiction in possesion of one are two different things.
 
Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored. My State has the "3 strikes" rule. If you get 3 felony convictions, you go for life. It got me thinking about how many o our felons are drug offenders. Yes, dope does go with other illegal activities, I'll be the first to tell you. My question is are we punshing people for being addicts? Is being an addict bad? Is it something we can't help beyond that first hit?

hey buddy,

the 3 strikes law is not always that simple. a felony must first be strikeable, then the strike has to be applied upon conviction.


Dealing is one thing, possession is another. The law gives little distinction between the two.

not entirely accurate. excepting marijuana, narcotics possession in ca is a felony. but possession in ca often results in a prop 36 rehab program in lieu of jail/prison. ive talked with users who have gone through a prop 36 program multiple times.

whereas a conviction for possession for sales is pretty much a guaranteed trip to jail/prison. the user is treated differently in the system than the dealer, if not in the penal code verbage.

carrying a scale or a couple bindles of narco does not meet the elements of possession for sales, in and of itself. but i have yet to run across a user-only who carries a scale. in my experience a scale has always been accompanied by other items indicating the individual is a dealer (ie, when i have made an arrest for same).

now carrying a scale, narco bindles, wads of cash, and a pay/owe sheet is a different situation.

It should not be societies burden to rehabilitate drug addicts.

i somewhat agree. but society burdens itself with all sorts of problems born originally by the individual. rehab facilities are costly for the user, and those w/o such funds still deserve treatment.

Some people are more easily addicted then others. That doesn't make it right. Were'd the first hit come from? Why?

That being said, I wish you all the best staying clean. :thumbup:

i certainly do not think addiction is a disease. i believe labeling it as such removes personal responsibility from the user. they absolutely make a choice every time they use, excepting a legitimate medical injection.

is caffiene addiction a disease? chocolate releases endorphins in to the brain, and people claim to be addicted to chocolate. is chocoholism a disease? im a smoker, and every time i light a cigarette i have made a choice to do so. the compulsion is obviously higher than in a non-smoker, but it is a choice nonetheless.

i dont have the answer as to why some become addicted and some dont. it may be a combination of personality, genetic, and environmental influences. some can use and become addicted on the first hit, some can use "socially" and never become an addict, an most fall somewhere in between.

as to the original question, punishment is not for the addiction. punishment is for being in possession and/or under the influence of a federally banned substance.

and sorry, but your ca medical marijuana card is not legally valid. ca can pass any law it wants, but if it is more lenient than an existing federal statute, it is not valid. but my understanding is that atf/dea plans to cease enforcement on card holders and medical dealers.
 
If nothing else, we as a society could save a lot of money by letting the health care system deal with the problem of drug addiction and not the criminal justice system. On the supply side, prohibition doesn't work and is anathema to personal freedom.

While I don’t think anyone chooses to be an addict, the legal ramifications of classifying addition as a disease would create some troubling results especially in light of the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Sadly, the current paradigm used in treating addiction has a ridiculously low success rate. However, if the enormous sums of money used to fight the war on drugs were invested in more medical research, we may find successful treatments to many addictions.
 
Y'all know my story. Recovering meth addict. In my thread in knife laws, I'm asking how a (non violent) felon can get his gun rights restored.

Best advice: retain a good lawyer. That way, you've got someone to help you through all the legal mumbo-jumbo, and make sure the others guys do their part right.

thx - cpr
 
What If I am addicted to having sex with children? There you go. It has the elements of Addiction: losing self control, is it a disease?

Sorry guys I just wanted to through another one in.
Actually, Some paedophiles have less choice in being what they are than recreational drug addicts. Some of the formers have been abused as children bla bla bla.....

I am just thinking aloud. No opinion so far.

There's more to this than Baliodude intended, if I understand his subsequent posts correctly.

People do compulsive, self-destructive and especially criminal things for a variety of reasons. But one thing that a compulsive over-eater, a rapist and a drug addict share is a neuro-chemical flush of endorphins and other mood altering brain chemicals that are surprisingly similar.

I don't like the comparison of a heroin addict's rush to the rush a paedophile gets when he does the things he does, but if I understand correctly, they share a very similar mental state chemically during that behavior, and a very similar one to that of a binging Bulimic, a robber, etc.

I would be the last to equate bulimia, drug addiction and paedophilia on any kind of scale of responsibility and guilt, but it is interesting to me that such diverse compulsions can share something so important.
 
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