Is all 3v created equal? If not what's the good, bad, and the ugly?

whupash

whupash

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This is my first post on this forum. It comes from a discussion I was reading regarding INFI, vs SR-101, vs 3v. I own all three. A RMD, Scrapper 5 LE INFI, and a Bark River Fox River in 3v. I reprofiled the RMD, and Scrapper 5 to a convexed edge but the Fox River remains unused. My intentionson are to test three similar knives in the three steels. Which leads me to my question about 3v. Who makes the best? What's the difference? Survive, cold steel, Bark River, others?
Thanks in advance.
 
Makes the steel? only Crucible. Makes the best blade ?.Each determines the HT and a side by side test ,with edges sharpened the same would tell you .
Steel companies give you a HT recipe for the average use of their steels. If the steel is used for 1.5" thick pieces the recipe will not be the best for 1/8 " blades.So each blade maker will find a HT recipe including hardness that each will think the best for his customers. If you have a full custom blade you can request a hardness from the maker.
 
CPM 3v is proprietary. Consumers don't have to worry about manufacturing variances.

3v is a steel, it's not a knife. All other variables would be in the hands of the maker. Read Nathan the machinist's literature. He writes a lot about his metallurgic "techniques".
 
I recommend 3v from a maker on bladeforums, that or Winklers 3v. It acts different at different HRC so choose accordingly for a good comparison.
 
All 3V is made by crucible but HT will have an enormous impact on how it performs.

I HT my 3V for smaller to mid sized knives extra hard to 61-62 and austenize for carbide formation and have had great results with it. For big blades I use a HT protocol with a lower austenization temperature which results in less carbide formation for greater toughness. Hardness still ends up at pretty high at 60 or so.

So while all 3V is the same, HT can have an enormous impact on performance the type of edge that the blade can handle. I can get really thin edges on my small blades run up to 62 and they hold up very well.
 
All 3V comes from one source. Its up to the maker's heat treat and edge geometry to bring the best out of it.
Not sure who has the "best" 3V knife out there but Survive! has one of the best combinations of heat treat and geometry.
 
Just to clarify on HT:

There is the "quality" of HT - the extra steps or care the heat treater brings to the process that maximizes the potential of the steel. Some steels don't really have many options to take advantage of. 3V is one of those that additions like cryo produce measurable results.

The other half is what Huntsman is referring to. Crucible refers to different temps being used to maximize edge retention on one end and toughness on the other, with a good balance in between. This range of austenizing temps (the heat before quench) is a little wider than it would be for something like 1095, where toughness vs. edge retention would be addressed almost entirely during the temper cycle.

So I see 3V as a steel that offers the maker lots of control, and also lots of opportunities to screw it up because they have so many variables to play with. They either need to borrow a proven recipe, or do a lot of experimenting first. 52100 steel has a similar reputation - which is why Busse chooses to call their post HT version of it "SR101".
 
RX-79G said:
<snip>
52100 steel has a similar reputation - which is why Busse chooses to call their post HT version of it "SR101".
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that the earliest versions of sr-101 were 52100 with a HT optimized for their intended usage.

Though the current iteration has gone through numerous tweaks and slight changes that they hold as proprietary so actually numbers are hard to pin down.
That being said, it has been stated a few times (that I have seen) from Garth and others "in the know" that there has been slight recipe changes to 52100 that allowed Busse to actually get a bit more from their HT regimen.
 
There is a 52100 "family" 50100, 51100,52100 with varying amounts of chromium, There are also 'quality ' standards , aircraft, bearing etc. Each with different properties , hardenability , strength etc. So there are lots of things you can pick for different blade properties .The guy that's making a bearing or the one who's making aircraft parts needs something different in HT than the blade man !
 
NJBillK said:
I was under the impression that the earliest versions of sr-101 were 52100 with a HT optimized for their intended usage.

Though the current iteration has gone through numerous tweaks and slight changes that they hold as proprietary so actually numbers are hard to pin down.
That being said, it has been stated a few times (that I have seen) from Garth and others "in the know" that there has been slight recipe changes to 52100 that allowed Busse to actually get a bit more from their HT regimen.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you never know. If you buy 1095 you may or may not get silicon in the alloy. The carbon range in W1 is all over the place. I imagine there are similar variations on 52100, both in what elements and how much. They may have simply identified a source whose particular 52100 alloy recipe works just right, or they may have commissioned a run with an unusual formulation.

Take a look some time at the chemistry that NJSteelbaron posts for their 1084. Its practically a low alloy steel.
 
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