Is Buck moving down?

A

Ad58

Joined
May 23, 2005
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373
I see Buck isn't using the fine steels anymore they used to....

My Alpha folder with rosewood scales, with a nice ATS 34 blade which I could strop up to a real razor blade..... Buck changes the steel to 12C27 mod whatever that might be....

Thinking about the Ergo Hunter Pro because it was made in S30V... The steel I know from my Buck 819 signature series, holding an edge like no other steel and taking an scarey sharp edge right out off h.ll Too late! Buck moved over to 12C27mod steel.

What is happening Buck???????
 
Buck offers a "Select" grade which is everyday standard use with 420hc, "Avid" as a mid-upper level performance with either 13c26 or 12c27 Sandvik(Sandvik is a high quality, diverse, Swedish steel mfg, maybe best known for razor blades and industrial steel aps. Then of course the "Pro" grade with s30v. I will let the more metalurgically literate fella's give specifics, but let it be said that Buck in no way has compromised the quaillity of its steel offererings.
 
Buck moves around, but rarely ever down. I only say rarely, because some thought moving from 440C to 425M and eventually 420HC is a move down. That is debatable.

They just move around from time to time. They are known for their working man's knives with the best warranty in the biz, not for their high dollar steels. Can you imagine how many knives a month they warrant. What if they were all s30V that some dummy broke the tip off. They wouldn't be in biz long.

Just enjoy the one you have. They have selective offerings from time to time, pick what you want, and whatever you have, you have a good product, good heat treat that gives the most that steel can give, and the best warranty in the biz.
 
Ad58 said:
Thinking about the Ergo Hunter Pro because it was made in S30V... The steel I know from my Buck 819 signature series, holding an edge like no other steel and taking an scarey sharp edge right out off h.ll Too late! Buck moved over to 12C27mod steel.

What is happening Buck???????
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No way is it too late. The Ergo Hunter Pro of all types are made with S30V. As a matter of fact all the Buck knives with the "Pro" designation come in S30V.

You must have gotten some bum info somewhere.:confused:
 
I actually think the O.P. asks a relevant question with regard to this change to Sandvik 12C27M for the majority of the Avid models. I certainly do not believe that 12C27M is an equivalent steel when compared to the 154CM or ATS-34 it replaced. It is my understanding that 12C27M was developed by Sandvik as a kitchen cutlery steel and that stainless qualities were a top priority due to a need to survive dishwashers without discoloration.

I’ve tried to get the insiders to explain the decision but no luck. It seems Buck Inc. is not talking about the decision to make the steel change. I’m on the fence because I want the company to be successful and if this helps them that’s good, but I do prefer premium steel as a general rule and this Sandvik steel is NOT one. I think I can say that this move is not something that I would have wanted but it a change I can live with it.

I will also say I would really like to see 110 blades in 13C26 which has been very impressive in my Vantages.
 
I really like the 154CM and ATS34 also.I'm not too thrilled about the change either.Now,if they made a steel change in their CS and Pro models from S30V to CPM154,then I might get excited in a good way.
 
Guess we can't expect to see BG-42 again in this lifetime.

Buck needs to learn that they can offer higher quality products and charge more and people will BUY!!! Offer HIGH END exotic materials......including steel. Interesting stuff......not the same old stuff with cheaper materials.

Wake up, Buck.......really. It's the wave of the future.

It's the one niche where you can always beat China hands down.
 
Flatlander1963 said:
I actually think the O.P. asks a relevant question with regard to this change to Sandvik 12C27M for the majority of the Avid models. I certainly do not believe that 12C27M is an equivalent steel when compared to the 154CM or ATS-34 it replaced. It is my understanding that 12C27M was developed by Sandvik as a kitchen cutlery steel and that stainless qualities were a top priority due to a need to survive dishwashers without discoloration.

I’ve tried to get the insiders to explain the decision but no luck. It seems Buck Inc. is not talking about the decision to make the steel change. I’m on the fence because I want the company to be successful and if this helps them that’s good, but I do prefer premium steel as a general rule and this Sandvik steel is NOT one. I think I can say that this move is not something that I would have wanted but it a change I can live with it.

I will also say I would really like to see 110 blades in 13C26 which has been very impressive in my Vantages.
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I just wanted to let the OP know that the Pro's still have S30V blades. His post seemed to indicate that he thought they were now 12C25M which isn't the case. That seemed to be the question or complaint he had.

"Thinking about the Ergo Hunter Pro because it was made in S30V... The steel I know from my Buck 819 signature series, holding an edge like no other steel and taking an scarey sharp edge right out off h.ll Too late! Buck moved over to 12C27mod steel."
 
I don't think so at all.

I like that they offer different steel/handle material options. I bought the Vantage Avid since I wanted to try the Sandvik steel, like the dymonwood handles better than G10, and didn't want to pay for the higher end steel.

Now, when I got the Paradigm, I went for the Pro to get the G10 and higher end steel since I saw the knife to be a higher cost user. Plus the price difference was only $10 or so. Still not used to the blue/black G10 handle yet though:D

I like the steel options that they have out there. Allows people to try a less expensive version of a design they like and lets people fit the steel to their wants, needs, and uses.
 
wow ...dont know why but i feel i will be excited about the 110's all over again ... perhaps later next year
every one knows i get excited every year over new buck one tens!!!
 
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I sure hope Dave is excited about something more than a change to a cheaper and unimpressive steel.

About a year ago I predicted that in days to come we'd be lamenting the demise of the late and great 420HC steel in most of Buck's knives.

I sure hope this unspoken rumor doesn't make me a prophet.
 
my furry tongued friend i mainly get excited about jest a few things
in life like well a new girl friend winning the loto,
New CS knives , new LE's for outfitters, new LE's on bucks website
and of course new club knives...
i really dont thing buck would ever give up on a great standard steel
 
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I also own a Buck blade in 420HC steel. It's good steel, but not as outstanding as the premiums. I like to collect and use knifes with different steels. So I can form my own opinion about the different steels. Ofcourse a different maker means a possible different heath-treat, so I have to take that into account also.
By now I own 420 HC, 440A, 440C, D2, ATS-34, 154CM, S30V and 51-200. I think I prefer the 154-CM and its Japanese brother ATS-34. Those steels really take a razor blade edge, which lasts long and are easy to sharpen. The edge of S30V lasts longer, but when dulled it is much more difficult to sharpen.

Here is a nice overview of the most common different steels: http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

As for warranty: I understood Buck has a life-long warranty as everybody should have. I also like the warranty of Bark River: life-long and they also have a SPA where you can get your knife restored and made like new. All for free!
 
What do you think the cost difference in a sandvik vs. Ats-34 is or even
S30v? Take the vantage series to go from an avid to a pro is $15-18 and you get G10 also. I don't think it can be that much cost difference to go to a higher end steel.
 
draftpick said:
What do you think the cost difference in a sandvik vs. Ats-34 is or even
S30v? Take the vantage series to go from an avid to a pro is $15-18 and you get G10 also. I don't think it can be that much cost difference to go to a higher end steel.
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The key is "Mass Production Cost Difference."

Buck is now into mass production for profit. A whole bunch of boring knives.

This will lead to market saturation and bankruptcy.
 
BG42EDGE said:
The key is "Mass Production Cost Difference."

Buck is now into mass production for profit. A whole bunch of boring knives.

This will lead to market saturation and bankruptcy.
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I gotta quote this one for posterity :D I think I may have to save this to the hard drive and look back on it 20 years from now and see how close or far off you were :D

Maybe they shoulda just stuck with the 300 series standard slippies and the 100 series phenolic models LMAO!
They have some great knives out again these past few years, including that the Vantage lineup has probably brought more people to Buck than any other. Not to mention the Ergo lineup. I probably bought more current lineup knives this year than ever before. But then again what do I know :rolleyes:
Not everyone can remain "old school" ;)

Heres a nice ergo PRO, (not a select or avid) with S30V


 
ohen cepel said:
I don't think so at all.

I like that they offer different steel/handle material options. I bought the Vantage Avid since I wanted to try the Sandvik steel, like the dymonwood handles better than G10, and didn't want to pay for the higher end steel.

Now, when I got the Paradigm, I went for the Pro to get the G10 and higher end steel since I saw the knife to be a higher cost user. Plus the price difference was only $10 or so. Still not used to the blue/black G10 handle yet though:D

I like the steel options that they have out there. Allows people to try a less expensive version of a design they like and lets people fit the steel to their wants, needs, and uses.
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:thumbup: Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup:
 
I think I may have to save this to the hard drive and look back on it 20 years from now and see how close or far off you were
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Maybe it won't take 20 years.

:D

(Besides, your hard drive won't last 20 years.)
 
postfallsidaho said:
I gotta quote this one for posterity :D I think I may have to save this to the hard drive and look back on it 20 years from now and see how close or far off you were :D
Not everyone can remain "old school" ;)
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can i can i please can i?@?!
WHAT! but i wanta stay old school!!:D
 
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