Is Elmax Done? M390 Wins?

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wheelgunrambo

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I have noticed recently that there are fewer and fewer Elmax knives and more M390. It seems they are very similar in function as steels but I was wondering if anyone has any reason to say that Elmax is superior in any way? From what I can find its not. Would love any input on this.
 
Elmax has higher toughness at the cost of some edge retention. That being said, to have the edge retention bumped up to those higher levels, it has to be ran at 61-62 hrc, and most companies run it to 58-59 to bump up the toughness.

That being said, I have one knife in Elmax @ 61-62hrc (a Busse), and I Love it! It is one of my favorite slicer users.
 
NJBillK said:
Elmax has higher toughness at the cost of some edge retention. That being said, to have the edge retention bumped up to those higher levels, it has to be ran at 61-62 hrc, and most companies run it to 58-59 to bump up the toughness.

That being said, I have one knife in Elmax @ 61-62hrc (a Busse), and I Love it! It is one of my favorite slicer users.
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I would imagine Busse would get it right. Do they still use Elmax in current production?
 
wheelgunrambo said:
I would imagine Busse would get it right. Do they still use Elmax in current production?
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They do on occasion, but not often. When they do now, they tend to put it around 58-60 since they have their reputation built on toughness.

The earlier batches were ran harder, but only on the Scrapmax line afaik, as was the Boney Active Duty, but that is INFI at 62-64 iirc.
 
wheelgunrambo said:
I have noticed recently that there are fewer and fewer Elmax knives and more M390. It seems they are very similar in function as steels but I was wondering if anyone has any reason to say that Elmax is superior in any way? From what I can find its not. Would love any input on this.
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Marketing. Gotta feed the steel junkies' habit! :D Same reason why Taco Bell takes the same ingredients, rolls them instead of folding them, calls it Extreme! and says its "New"!

In my opinion.
 
I like M390 but prefer Elmax. I am happy to lose a bit of edge retention for added toughness. The current trend in the knife industry is edge retention, but I suspect I am not alone in privileging toughness for my users. I have bought a few older ZTs in Elmax recently for that very reason.
 
I may well be mistaken, but I thought KAI indicated that there were supply issues with ELMAX when they switched to S35VN.

If that is the case, then I suspect the lack of ELMAX blades has nothing to do with the knife industry.
 
marcinek said:
Marketing. Gotta feed the steel junkies' habit! :D Same reason why Taco Bell takes the same ingredients, rolls them instead of folding them, calls it Extreme! and says its "New"!

In my opinion.
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M marcinek is correct

The current super steels, M390, the CPM variants, elmax, etc were never designed for the knife industry.

The primary use of these steels is in the plastics injection molding industry.

Knife manufacturers have created a niche market with these steels to feed a narrow demographic of consumers, (myself included) very successfully.

Few knives are built for utility, most knives are marketed like a new model car, lots of models to pick from, all the options.

The majority of the knife buying public has little or no concern as to blade steel.

Personal preference, I like my carbon steel blades.
 
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marcinek said:
Marketing. Gotta feed the steel junkies' habit! :D Same reason why Taco Bell takes the same ingredients, rolls them instead of folding them, calls it Extreme! and says its "New"!

In my opinion.
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Sometimes I really forget that 90% of these steels just so happened to be used in knives. Now it kind of makes me curious if Elmax is still popular for its industrial use or if M390 became more popular there as well :D
 
[QUOTE="Cvrobinson, post: 17906425, ... Few knives are built for utility, most knives are marketed like a new model car, lots of models to pick from, all the options.

The majority of the knife buying public has little or no concern as to blade steel.

Personal preference, I like my carbon steel blades.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I can agree with your statement "few knives are built for utility ..."
IMHO (which along with $10 might get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks) be they modern single blade one hand openers, or single or multi-blade traditionals they are made for utilitarian use.

I agree that the (vast) majority of the knife buying public has little to no concern as to blade steel.
For most, as long as it does not rust, they could not care less what the blade steel is.
The "as long as it does not rust" part does take into consideration that most of the knife buying public do not know how to care for a carbon steel blade so it/they do not rust, which makes it difficult for those of us who do, to find an affordable knife (other than Opinel, and MAM) with carbon steel blade(s).
"Affordable" being based on disposable income, of course. For some, a GEC or Böker Tree Brand is affordable, for others, (like me) a Case is not affordable.
 
In knife use I see Elmax more for thicker blades designed for harder use but don't retain the same edge I love my Elmax knife and my M390 knife I seem them as different steels and knives for different use and purpose.
 
ZT Elmax-gate happened. Lol

but for real elmax is great steel. M390 is great too. One is not better than the other just have different properties.

Supply and demand determines what's used though. Demand now is the latest and greatest which has way more supply.
 
I've owned a handful of blades in both these steels and in 20cv, I like them all. While not a metallurgy expert, in my practical, real-world usage and sharpening, I can't tell a nickel's worth of difference. These are all premium, modern PM steels that perform extremely well in all criteria we care about: stain resistance, toughness, wear resistance, edge retention, ability to take a good edge, etc. No doubt there are minor differences which can be further accentuated by variables like heat treat, but overall, they are both just fantastic steels and you are very unlikely to notice these differences in real world usage. If you see a knife design you like by a reputable maker in one or the other, there's absolutely no reason not to get it, simply on the grounds that you might eke out slightly better performance in contrived knife tests with the alternate steel type.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I may well be mistaken, but I thought KAI indicated that there were supply issues with ELMAX when they switched to S35VN.

If that is the case, then I suspect the lack of ELMAX blades has nothing to do with the knife industry.
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Bah! Far too logical. :D

I mean that would probably explain it. My point is that if I were a knife manufacturer I would make sure to keep a steady supply of new steels coming. The Spyderco Mule series is genius. Just the same knife in different steels. Nothing wrong about that...folks love sexy new steels!

"Nice 440C knife, grandpa! :rolleyes:"
 
I really don't think Elmax has tapped just yet. Sure, M390 is in the limelight more often, it's an absolutely incredible steel to use in folders. It also has a lot of recognition out among the knife community so more production companies use it in their knives.

Elmax(to me) is better suited in harder use fixed blades. And that's exactly where you find it. If you take a look into the custom world you'll find quite a lot of Elmax.

So while it isn't as popular as M390 in the grand scheme of things, it's actually getting used in knives that truly benefit from it's toughness.
 
On thing to note for M390 and its comparable alternatives from other steel manufactures is that it isn't some top of the line steel in any given aspect in fact it can be beaten by another steel in almost every aspect it has earned its place due to the balance of these aspects in the steel.
 
I did not know there was a competition between Elmax v M390 both steels are great in their own right. Elmax is preferable SS option in fixed blades while M390 in folders.
 
How I love such a deep-minded topic :rolleyes:
Most of the conclusions are made on the basis of the mass produced folders and the thick behind edge or :eek: HT
I love both and still can not decide ... but my love is pure custom nature :p
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