Is Elmax Done? M390 Wins?

[Jhansenak47]

Like them both, but I think M390 has more koolaid appeal to fanboys. You would think M390 is adamantium the way some people talk it up.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

How I love such a deep-minded topic
Most of the conclusions are made on the basis of the mass produced folders and the thick behind edge or HT
I love both and still can not decide ... but my love is pure custom nature

Well, it's sure a good thing you showed up to add such depth of conversation to the thread and tell all the plebs what for.

 

[NJBillK]

How I love such a deep-minded topic
Most of the conclusions are made on the basis of the mass produced folders and the thick behind edge or HT
I love both and still can not decide ... but my love is pure custom nature

If 60-61 hrc with a quality HT and .010-.013 BTE (across the model line, Scrapmax) is too thick, then I don't know what to say. It is about as thin as you will find in the production side of the spectrum.

And I agree with Insipid Moniker
Thanks for chiming in and saying why you prefer one alloy over the other and which of the two suited better to your daily needs. It would also help to know what those needs are.
Those knives look awfully new...

 

[chumaman]

Well, it's sure a good thing you showed up to add such depth of conversation to the thread and tell all the plebs what for.

It is certainly easier to buy in hype but to create with the passion of making
I have not referred to the Scrapmax....this is a unique example of excellent elmax

 

[marcinek]

It is certainly easier to buy in hype but to create with the passion of making

1) I, literally, do not understand you. What are you saying?
2) I, figuratively, do not understand you. What are you implying?

 

[marcinek]

Like them both, but I think M390 has more koolaid appeal to fanboys. You would think M390 is adamantium the way some people talk it up.

That's kinda rude. You feel the members here who like M390 are merely "fanboys"?

 

[Korean Hog]

I had a microtech ultratech in elmax, and have a BM grip in 20 cv which I hear is supposed to be more or less the same as M390 (correct me if I'm wrong). Different blades different geometries, but they both seemed like outstanding steels to me. If M390 is anything like 20cv I bet it's awesome, but so was the Elmax. Couldn't tell much difference, performance wise, in the 20cv and elmax (edge retention, toughness, stainless properties etc.)
m390, elmax, 20cv... they all seem like great steels to me with very similar performance. I bet if you made 3 paramilitaries, delicas, Sebenzas, or whatever, each with one of three listed steels, you couldn't tell a difference. In other words I think the geometry, HT, basically all the other characteristics of a knife, are going to be the deciding factors more than the steel itself when you compare such similar blade steels.

As others have said, the changeover from one to the other probably has to do with the supply of the steel. If not that, then maybe the manufacturers figure M390 looks better to a customer on a spec sheet. I don't see where one is vastly outperforming the other as a reason to change up steels.

With that said, I've been carrying my "inferior steel" VG10 Delica lately and loving it!
I think this week coming up I'm going to carry my ZDP-189 Endura and then can't nobody talk to me 'bout no edge retention!

Or...maybe a Sebenza because you shouldn't underestimate ease of sharpening and lack of chips

 

[Lapedog]

I have noticed recently that there are fewer and fewer Elmax knives and more M390. It seems they are very similar in function as steels but I was wondering if anyone has any reason to say that Elmax is superior in any way? From what I can find its not. Would love any input on this.

If we look at the two steels they are clearly siblings. Both steels have alloying elements in the same proportions to one another, just m390 has a little bit more of each alloying element. (Except manganese and molybdenum, which are the same, and silicon, where elmax has .1% more)

I would say from personal guess that the reason why m390 is being used more is because many folders and small fixed blades are being produced for which toughness is less important than edge retention. (Lower alloying content tends to lead to higher toughness)

As a side note it has been my experience that m390 is for some strange reason remarkably easy to sharpen given its high carbide load. (I have heard speculation this is due to m390 seeming to not produce stubborn burrs) Elmax does not seem to have this same super easy to sharpen quality.

 

[chumaman]

If 60-61 hrc with a quality HT and .010-.013 BTE (across the model line, Scrapmax) is too thick, then I don't know what to say. It is about as thin as you will find in the production side of the spectrum.

And I agree with Insipid Moniker
Thanks for chiming in and saying why you prefer one alloy over the other and which of the two suited better to your daily needs. It would also help to know what those needs are.
Those knives look awfully new...

Awfully ,certainly....they work in both versions quite well....M390 It's a bit more aggressive, probably due to wolfram

This is a wild boar shank ... very hard bone

 

[NJBillK]

Awfully ,certainly....they work in both versions quite well....M390 It's a bit more aggressive, probably due to wolfram

This is a wild boar shank ... very hard bone

M390 also has higher Vanadium which forms stronger carbides than Tungsten (Wolfram). So that may also play a roll.

That being said, did you chop at this? If that is the case the added Tungsten wouldn't help much, if anything it could be a detriment. Due to how brittle Tungsten is to impact forces.

 

[Jhansenak47]

That's kinda rude. You feel the members here who like M390 are merely "fanboys"?

I explicitly stated that I like M390. Am I calling myself a fanboy?

 

[beendare]

Elmax done? I hope not!

I have a Bark River Classic hunter in Elmax coming. As I understand it BRK runs their Elmax at 61R which pushed me in that direction. Hoping its going to be my numero uno skinning and processing knife. I will have to reprofile as I'm not a convex guy.

 

[NJBillK]

As a side note it has been my experience that m390 is for some strange reason remarkably easy to sharpen given its high carbide load. (I have heard speculation this is due to m390 seeming to not produce stubborn burrs) Elmax does not seem to have this same super easy to sharpen quality.

This may be attributed to the high chromium content and the alloy being ran soft. Chromium has the bad characteristic of being a bit gummy, and causing the apex to hold a stubborn burr.
I have not noticed this on my Busse, which is (unfortunately) my only elmax.

 

[chumaman]

Yes I chop...couple of times,there was no damage on the blades ... but they are somewhat thicker 0.0118 inch BTE
these are still the test pieces from 2015, present are still thinner certain for cutting 0,007inch

 

[Lapedog]

This may be attributed to the high chromium content and the alloy being ran soft. Chromium has the bad characteristic of being a bit gummy, and causing the apex to hold a stubborn burr.
I have not noticed this on my Busse, which is (unfortunately) my only elmax.

I am saying that it has been noted (by myself, others and also claimed by zknives) that m390 seems to not form a burr. For some reason I find m390 (and its cousins 20cv/cts204p) even run at various hardnesses seems to be unusually easy to sharpen.

True I don’t have a custom m390 ran to the max hardness the steel is capable of but I have many m390 (and cousins) knives ran at various hardnesses and ease of sharpening seems to be a characteristic of the steel.

 

[NJBillK]

I am saying that it has been noted (by myself, others and also claimed by zknives) that m390 seems to not form a burr. For some reason I find m390 (and its cousins 20cv/cts204p) even run at various hardnesses seems to be unusually easy to sharpen.

True I don’t have a custom m390 ran to the max hardness the steel is capable of but I have many m390 (and cousins) knives ran at various hardnesses and ease of sharpening seems to be a characteristic of the steel.

I was speaking to your experience with Elmax holding a burr.

 

[Natlek]

M marcinek is correct

The current super steels, M90, the CPM variants, elmax, etc were never designed for the knife industry.

This is the second time I read here that M390 is never designed for the knife industry . Look again here ..........................just above the chemical composition ............... KNIVES

https://www.bohler-edelstahl.com/media/M390DE.pdf

 

[Lapedog]

I was speaking to your experience with Elmax holding a burr.

In all honesty Elmax isn’t too bad about holding a burr either. For some reason though m390’s sharpenability seems to be beyond even just whether it holds a burr or not.

This is purely anecdotal but I have a good friend who sharpens using diamond plates on the guided KME system. He often is shocked by how much faster he is done reprofiling, then sharpening knives made in m390 family in particular. Then he goes to reprofile an overly obtuse edge on a steeet beat (vg10) and cannot believe how long it takes. I have not reprofiled an m390 knife yet but I can kind of see what he is saying when I am just sharpening.

M390 is like magic or something. (I think someone probably puts a spell on it)

 

[ATJ999]

Heck NO!! I have been using M390 and 20CV for years. Just recently, early 2017 I believe, I bought two Elmax knives, and fell in love. It is an amazing steel! I honestly wish most of my stainless knives were Elmax. M390/20CV/204P was my favorite stainless steel for small blades until I got my Elmax blades. I now have 5 Elmax blades, mostly fixed blades. Wish I had more. When it has a good HT and blade geometry, it is very hard to beat with overall performance! IMHO
Elmax and M390 were designed for the plastic mold industry. I believe that is correct. Once it started being used for knives, they added that into its "uses" section. But it was definitely not designed for knives. Most steels were designed for other uses, does not make them bad knife steels! Not at all!

 

[brandoak]

Elmax to M390 is apples to apples. I swear the knife manufactures just change it up once in a while keep redundancy down.