Is 'exposure' worth the risk?

SharpByCoop

SharpByCoop

Enjoying the discussions
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Oct 8, 2001
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It's strange, but some of the most coveted and respected knifemakers are not visible at all on the net. I'm referring to forums and dialog. Their work is sought after, and some have a near-fanatical following. There are tens and tens of these guys 'laying low' or simply not interested in the conversations. I'm not being specific, nor do I want to be.

My observations show there are some exceptions, but few.

Conversely there are a BUNCH of aspiring knifemakers who participate regularly in these forums (..here, CKD, KnifeForums, USN, etc.), and are striving to get the same status as their bretheren. These guys are the ones 'talking the talk' and giving back to the community.

My question is simple: All things being equal, is it possible that exposing themselves and their methods and viewpoints make them LESS in demand than a 'mysterious' maker?

Just tossing this out there for some discussion.

Coop
 
In my opinion I think the makers who are "talkin to the masses " will have a strong following soon and for a long period of time.
Being able to converse with the maker and sort of get to know him or her adds a personal touch and an attachment to the knife which to me far exceeds monetary value . These knifemakers and the up and comers as well are able to get direct feedback on their wares . Perhaps that is why some hide in the shadows and choose not to talk , they do not want feedback or suggestions.
I for one applaud all the makers who give time to us on all the forums . It probably gives them a boost as well to read about how others are enjoying their work .:D Just one mans opinion....
 
A lot of the guys are basically hermits and the rest are too busy to spend time on the net.

This internet thing takes a lot of time and commitment to keep up but it is a way to reach out to a much larger market than you can reach any other way.
 
Originally posted by george tichbourne
A lot of the guys are basically hermits and the rest are too busy to spend time on the net.
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And some have learned that "he who lives by the Internet, dies by the Internet"...I know quite a few makers who have been "run-off" the boards...but I won't get into such things now...

In answer to your question Coop, no, I don't think that by exposing themselves that they make themselves LESS in demand...for the most part, I agree with the45guy that "the makers who are 'talkin to the masses' will have a strong following soon and for a long period of time."...there are a few makers who wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for their activities on the boards...

RL
 
I also think that the makers who have exposure here, and on the other forums, will have a better following.

As a consumer I want to 'know' as much as I can about the guy or gal that I'm about to give a serious chunk of money to, for their craftsmanship, and 'soul'

I don't want to buy from someone who I haven't been exposed to, simply because I haven't been able to adequately judge his character, or get a 'feeling' for him /her.

You can only rely on 'word of mouth' so much, and for the most part, I suppose that is ok for some things, but not ok if you are about to spend $500 or better with a maker who you haven't had any exposure to.

In summary, I will only purchase a custom blade from those makers who I have had exposure to on the forums. I think the other makers who aren't getting exposure here on the 'net, are missing out big time.

Just my humble opinion.
 
Originally posted by CODE 3
I also think that the makers who have exposure here, and on the other forums, will have a better following.

As a consumer I want to 'know' as much as I can about the guy or gal that I'm about to give a serious chunk of money to, for their craftsmanship, and 'soul'
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Very well put sir .
When you are able to get a sense for not only what they can create but also get the background on how it al came to be as well as who they are as a person it adds a certain attachment to the transaction.
I guess that is why I am so stoked about the Vegas Classic , getting to meet face to face with the makers who I have gotten to know thru online forums. These are the makers I am intersted in , these are the ones I am going to see and am certainly going to thank each of them for giving back to the knife community with their time on the forums.
Hope to meet other forum members there as well.
 
Show me a maker that consistently sells multi-thousand dolar knives through the various internet forums, then go to shows and see all the high dollar knives that are sold. The forums are great, but the internet is still a small part of the big knife picture and the scope of knives sold on the internet is still pretty narrow.
 
I can see your point DOGMAN, the knife shows are a much better place to meet the knife makers. It's always better to speak to someone face to face than to use a virtually expressionless medium ( I'm talking about the inability to convey tone of voice on the forums or e-mails). Smilies are okay but they don't work as well as the human voice and facial expressions. HOWEVER I live in England and the chances of me getting over to a "proper" knife show are akin to that of a snowball in "the hot place". In this country my chosen hobby is not very widely accepted, and finding the makers who live here would have been a nightmare were it not for the internet and forums (for instance there is a fairly well known maker who lives 5 minutes down the road from me, he doesn't advertise on the internet and I only found him through a stroke of luck).
Exsposure on the forums and internet can never be a bad thing as it allows people who would never be able to meet makers talk to them, see examples of their work and talk to existing customers on their experiances with the knives. just my 0.02 :)
 
I certainly wasn't discounting the importance of the internet for knifemaker's. I am a personal testament to its success:) I have also built 15 knifemaker/supllier web sites and specialize in digital knife photography, so I wholeheatedly support the medium.

The balance of power still leans towards the shows and magazines, though. That will shift in the future, but not any time soon. I always chuckle when someone posts their favorite knifemaker lists or who is the best knifemaker ever and it is always populated with maker's that hang out on the forums.

Is it smart as a maker to be on the web, with a site and as a forum member? Certainly. Is it essential? No. There are still a lot of crappy elements of the forums the keep knifemaker's away. I remember when Steve Johnson registered and posted on BF and someone essentially called him a troll on his first post. That was his last post as well.

I think in 5-10 years, a knifemaker without a web site and digital tools like email and digital photography will not hold the same success as one who does, but right now, there are maker's who have never turned on a computer in the life, are well respected by maker and collector alike, and do just fine selling knives.
 
Dogman: I think we are agreeing here, in a roundabout sort of way.:D
Good points there, mate, and better worded than mine. :)
 
I think that a few of these knifemakers that sell really high end knives are not trying to draw attention to themselves by being on the web. Many are making knives fulltime and their prices are in the thousands of dollars. Would you want to draw the attention of the IRS if all your profit was under the table??
 
In order to get a well respected reputation, people MUST SEE your product. I cant even begin to tell you how many people have emailed me and told me how that, even though the pictures of my knives looked great, until they actually got to play with one at a show (either thru my attendance or Knifeart or Bladeart) that they never really considered buying one. Handling the thing makes all the difference in the world. I have started being like that in a lot of things that I buy. Before I get it I want to look at one, feel it, and put it on my wrist!!! :) :) :)
 
Tom: I'm only speaking for myself here, I've never even spoken to another knife collector face to face, and the nearest knife shop to me that is even halfway decent is technically in another country (I live in England, the shop is in Wales although both are part of the U.K.) about 400 miles away. The top brand this shop carries is benchmade (good knives:))but has nothing remotely "custom" or "handmade". So I have no chance of handling a knife before I buy it, I HAVE to go by the pictures, reviews and opinions of others to judge what to buy. That is why internet exposure is so important to me.
Having said that, I do agree with you and BOB, given the chance I would much rather swap my computer for an airline ticket and entry to a decent knife show (not literally obviously :p ;) ).
 
Tom you have a point about the touchy feely part of knife buying, it takes a great deal of trust on the part of a customer to purchase a knife on the web without first having an opportunity to handle a sample first. This is why it is important to get out to as many shows as possible. Unfortunately show attendance is expensive both in terms of money and time lost from the shop and many makers can't afford either.
 
the internet only represents a fraction of the overall custom knife market....as has been stated earlier it certainly is more important to some makers more than others.

with air travel truly becoming inconvenient .... wonder how this will effect the big shows??????
 
The initial reason why I prompted this question was a conversation I had with a notable in the knife industry last month (he will remain anonymous, but wasn't a maker).

His viewpoint was that the risk of engaging in conversations that can sometimes "take off in the wrong direction" was not worth the risk of scarring his reputation. He is very successful, and I can't argue with success.

He opined that it was not in the best interest of a maker to be too involved. That one should take a more 'back seat' approach. So by choice or simply by indifference there STILL are a lot of makers who abide by this rule.

There's another aspect; let's face it--even though we ALL want to know of a maker's good standing, and these forums are a perfect tool for information, there is a level of 'intruigue' that enhances the Custom knife market. Mysteriously whittling away in his private workshop the craftsman WOW'S us with his fine work, and then disappears without fulfilling our gratification further. We have to purchase this knife to get a piece of this wizardry.

OK, so I'll risk tossing out a few examples:

Look at how little Scott Cook involved himself in his initial posts about his wildly successful 'Lochsa' folder. He deserves all his credits, as this is a wonderful knife that lives up to the hype. I've met Scott and I don't know anyone who has anything poor to say about him or his work. Including me. I just find it interesting about this phenomena. I thought it was a stroke of genius in marketing, that one.

Walter Brend. Here's a maker I know very little about. Never saw or heard much about him, and his knives are like GOLD! Looks like a very well made knife and his grinds have made him famous. He's not a household name on the forums. Steve Ryan comes to mind as well.

Ernie Emerson. There's no one in THIS crowd who doesn't respect and covet his work. Talk about fanatical! From what I've seen he is one of the MOST personable guys one could ever meet, as he is always three deep with folks at his table. He gives his clients the 'maker integrity' factor tenfold. He has a Forum in his honor here for Pete's sake! But he has had 34 posts in 4 years.

Please, please, please.... My point is NOT to bash these fine men. They're here to stay. I just wonder if anyone else has noticed this occurence and find it interesting or familiar.

Now MY neck is on the block for talking out loud, he he he!!! ;)

Coop
 
Originally posted by CODE 3



In summary, I will only purchase a custom blade from those makers who I have had exposure to on the forums. I think the other makers who aren't getting exposure here on the 'net, are missing out big time.

Just my humble opinion.
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Code I think you are the one who is missing out. I mostly agree with Dogman and as it has been said the net is still a small part of the knife world. Don't limit yourself to just the net makers. If you do you are really missing out.
 
In a nutshell, yes. One of the best things about this site, and others, is that one gets to read about advice from and see the products of various makers. I especially enjoy some of the threads that show how something is done at various stages of completion. Ron Leuschen comes to mind here. He had a couple of fantastic threads awhile ago showing the completion of an integral that I thought was fantastic. I also enjoy the wisdom of the makers in how they do certain things and also admit to the mistakes they made along the way. I especially enjoy Mr. Ed Fowler's input here. Even though I am not a maker, I enjoy and often frequent the bladesmith Q&A forum here. Alot of the stuff there is over my head, but it is fascinating to read things there.
Also, I would have never heard of 90% of the makers if it wasn't for the internet. There are makers here that I plan on collecting from simply because I have seen their work here first hand, in some cases have heard directly from them, and have heard others rave about them. The number of makers who have impacted negatively numbers only in half a handful. The only one I can think of is someone who was embroiled in a GB&U controversy awhile back that made him look really really bad. Of course, there is always three sides to every story though. Gotta take it with a grain of salt.
Perhaps the biggest negative to me, (and not the makers) is that sometimes these guys get TOO popular... their wait time increases, their prices increase, and they become way too busy to interact with us common folk. I appreciate someone who takes the time to communicate with their consumers.
My long-winded .02
Mongo
 
An excellent topic Coop!

I agree that if you are limiting your knowledge to net exposure you are without a doubt missing out and if a knife maker does not have some type of information on the net they may be missing out.
2 points that are true at the present.

1. The net really does not give an indication of how the custom knife world handles itself and operates.

2. As a group kifemakers are the finest group I have associated with.
Some are not used to dealing with situations that arise on the net where hype, anger and strong personalities are involved. Their experience with knife-making is one of respect and friendships. Their sales technique is to let their knives sell themselves.

I know for a fact that some makers would rather not deal with the bad situations that arise on occasions in the knife venues since those types of situations are not a part of their profession.

The situation with Steve Johnson is one of many examples I am aware of. That was one of the worst I have seen. by it's nature there are many people who strike out over the net, before they understand what they are commenting on and to whom they are making those comments.
 
Blade 747,

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but these forums can be very time consuming, (addicting). If I'm not careful, I'll end up 1/2 hour here, 1/2 hour there then up till midnight just looking. I try and answer all questions regarding my knives when they come up, but REALLY need to stay busy in the shop. It's a full time, one man shop.

Every minute counts and one has to balance out the job duties, and that includes the books to! These forums offer a great opportunity for makers to gain exposure and thats great. I try and post when I can or when I think I should.

I actually enjoy the shows, that's my prefered method of communication to customers and the questions. Plus, folks get to handle all those sharp objects. It also gets me out of the shop and to a place I have not been before or in some time. It is not easy explaining some of the things that I or makers do on paper/screen/type. At least me anyway!!!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the forums and Internet are very important avenues for all to use and should be utilized, but I also need to make a few sparks.

I'll be in Vegas with a couple of sharp objects.

Scott
 
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