Is "High End Production" a useful term?

DaveH

DaveH

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Dec 2, 1999
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I'm involved in an email discussion about what constitutes a "High End Production" knife. I have two problems with this term.

The first is I think that a knife should be judged on it's qualities alone and it doesn't matter if it's "production", "custom" or "pooped out a space aliens butt". Obvously if you're a warm fuzzy maker's soul and blood type you won't agree.

The second is that term is to be considered valid, then is the $150 plus dollar retail SPyderco's, Kershaws, Camillus knives considered "High End"? And if they are considered high end can we compare them to a sebenza?

If we can, what objective way can we compare them? What subjective ways.

I already know brownshoe and cliff's opinion on this matter, I'm mentioning that in hopes his doesn't get high jacked into a is a sebenza worth it thread.

TIA
 
I consider a Porsche Boxter a high end car. I also consider a Ferrari a high end car. One costs 5x what the other starts at.

I think the same can be true with knives. "High end" doesn't mean a certain price point per se. To me it means a knife or company line that has proven itself to be above the average in its field.

Benchmades blue line are considered to be high end productions. Thier Gold glass would still fall into the same catagory, but at a different price point.

Just my 2¢
 
I'm not sure it matters so much what you are including in the terminology so much as what you are excluding. A 'high end production' means no customs, and it means nothing 'common' you might see in your average pawn shop.

WYK
 
"High end" is to differentiate good knives from the lower quality "HIND END" knives from over the pond. :p
 
Dave, good thread! Someone told me once that "high end " was used to describe prices over $200 as compared to other knives. 'Production" simply is used to differenciate between production and custom makers. CR vs Scott Cook as example. Buck /Mayo TNT vs Tom Mayo.
Maybe I am over simplifying this. It works for me.
 
Hi Dave.

Perhaps "high end" is a variable?

As Patryn mentioned, a Porsched Boxter is a "high end" car. Maybe in the world of cars in general? but to Porsche, the Boxter is their md-range car. (There are no low-end Porsche's :p ) Their "high-end" is 2 - 3 times as much as a Boxter and their very high end is 5 - 6 times as much.

In America, the Accord is the "high-end" Honda, Acura is a separate brand. But in Japan, where there is no "Acura" brand, the Acura models are high-end Honda's.

Perhaps "high-end" is relative to the "marque" and not the "market"?

sal
 
I think I see a trend I agree with, so we really can't compare "high End" knives in general to each other.
 
I think that it is a useful term, but also a relative term. A SAK or entry level Spyderco could be considered high end when compared to the usual import and knockoff junk knives. That would pretty much be to someone who isn't into knives though, someone who couldn't see spending $100, or even $50 on a knife. So basically to most people out there anything that we would generally view as a decent entry level knife would be a high end piece.

But then as you get more and more into knives, and understand why prices go so high, what a high end production knife is changes. Then there is a high end for each maker, in which one maker's high end might be comparable to anothers lower end. This really doesn't have to do with price alone, but just overall quality and feel of the knife.

Then of course there are makers who would in general are just high end makers. These would be the companies that really don't have any lower end knives, they just start up somwhere in the middle and go up.
 
I consider "High-end production" to be a relevant term. It does not have to refer only to the very top production knives, but to any of the knives that are thought to be high quality. In the world of audio/video products there are products at many different price points that are considered to be high end. It is the same in the camera industry and many, many others.
 
To me, a "high end" product is one that preforms to it's intended purpose eceptionally well. It will also be built of quality materials and with a higher than normal degree of workmanship. In other words, it will be built by a person/company who cares about their product and those who use them.

Paul
 
Mr. Dave, since you know my opinion, why not express it for me?...Geez louise take a load off about your precious.

I wouldn't dare to speak for cliff, but I'd say high end is a relevant term that needs explanation before use. Such as, "its on the high end of asian imports." or "it's on the high end of american production knives. or "its a little on the high end for my budget."

So Dave, is that my opinion as far as you know?
 
I might be wrong, but I anticipated your response would be that it's only high end if it can be flicked and still covered under warranty.
 
"High End" is a vague phrase with no value added.

Even within a single manufacturer's product line, "high end" may be a meaningless phrase. I can think of a couple of "high end" knife makers that don't have a "low end", much like Sal and others identified in the Porsche example. In most cases, when dealing with an "all high end" knife maker, the only difference in prices comes with added cosmetics - the basic mechanism (at least in the case of folders) doesn't change regardless of how much it costs whether it be $300 or $3000, Appleton, Lake, and other unique folders excluded, of course. Further, there are plenty of knives that when originally made were relatively inexpensive but gained value due to rarity or other collectible attributes, making their current value much, much higher (and high end) than originally conceived.

"Production" is a useless word for describing anything specific about knives, as all knives are "produced", whether by robots and carved out of a single piece of metal by a guy with a hacksaw.

I will never see "production" as a meaningful description of a portion of the knife market, just the same as "custom" is equally meaningless.

Just because a group of people (knife knuts) reach an uneasy consensus on the mis-use of the English language doesn't make it correct, or even worthwhile.
 
To me, "high end production knife" means "EXPENSIVE mass produced knife".

"High end custom-made knife" means "EXPENSIVE one-of-a-kind knife".

I've seen alot of "high end production knives" that I felt were simply overpriced.
In nearly every case, there is no advantage in actual cutting performance.

Will a Case stockman with bone-scales cut better than a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife with plastic scales or aluminum alox scales?
I have used all three, and I think the Vics performs better.
But the price difference between the Case and Vics is just unbelievable.

Allen.
 
"High end" refers to one end of a scale, specifically the high end. It means well above average. This could be a measure of quality or performance or price.

I'm going to guess that the average price of a new car in America is about $18,000. Porsche's entry-level car is -- what? -- two- to three-times that price. When you look at the automobile market as a whole, all Porsches are well above average. They are all high-end. Porsche is a high-end brand.

I'm going to guess that the average folding pocket knife sold in America goes for about $15, maybe $20. Companies like Benchmade and Spyderco have their entry-level knives priced at three- to four-times that price. They are both high-end brands.

Remember, I asserted that the average price of a pocket knife sold in American is perhaps $15. That means there's an aweful lot of pocket knives sold well below $15. I suspect that most of us here eschew $5 pocket knives and, therefore, have very little experience with them. As a result, your standards are a bit skewed.

Imagine the owner of even a lesser Porsche who takes a trip and ends up renting a car that is quite average, maybe a Ford Taurus or something. To him, this very average car is going to seem like a piece of junk. He may not think of his little Boxster as a "high end" car. But, compared to the whole automotive market, it certainly is.
 
To me a high end production knife is one that extra care was taken in the fit and finish of the knife and better than normal materials were used in it's manufacture.

Examples being William Henry Knives, and Chris Reeves Knives, of the top of my head those are really the only two I can think of right now, I'm not excluding Spyderco or Benchmade, they're just not in the same class.
 
To me a high end production knife is one that extra care was taken in the fit and finish of the knife and better than normal materials were used in it's manufacture.
Click to expand...


That's fine. But, again, we have to ask, what is "normal?"

If "normal" is the average in the overall market, then just about all the knives we talk about here are well above normal, are "high-end."
 
This is a tough one to answer. Consider all the hoopla surrounding the singular question, "what is a custom knife?" in other areas of this forum.
 
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