Is Hunting Difficult?

Originally posted by Evolute
Even if you felt that reminding yourself that you are part of the natural order requires living off the land, there would still be little reason to hunt in order to live off the land.
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I am (mostly) a vegetarian. And I live mostly off the land, or on what I trade my neighbors for.

Yet I hunt deer. Why? Because this island is *infested* with deer. There is no challenge whatsoever in hunting them - I could open my window right this instant and get one with my handgun if I wanted - there are half a dozen munching away in my driveway. I could walk outside with a baseball bat, and harvest 4-5 in the next hour.

If I don't hunt them, they eat everything in sight. I've got 6 foot plus deer fences around my gardens, but it's not sufficient. They are a major hazard to automotive traffic hereabouts as well.

I donate the meat to the Food Bank.
 
Bae,

I completely understand and accept that there are legitimate reasons for hunting. I'm not trying to argue that point at all.

It seems to me to be false that most trophy hunting, particularly with a rifle, is meaningfully a sport. I know that there are some cases when hunting is very difficult, but I get the impression that this is most often a pretense--not really more difficult or sporting than driving your car to your relatives' house for the holidays.

I'm hoping to determine whether my hypothesis is true or false. If it is true, then I would like to figure out why people think it's a sport when they are hunting in unsporting fashion (or why they call it a sport). I'm also hoping for clarity about why people who engage in this as a sport, but make it unsportingly easy, do it. If my hypothesis is false, I'd like to know exactly where I'm failing to recognize the challenge involved. I've gotten some helpful answers about this, but not enough, in my opinion, to sufficiently cover the scope of my questions.

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Separately, Warriorsociologist's explanation about reminding himself that he's part of the natural order raised my interest in further explanation about that point, both because I've heard other hunters make comments like this before, and because it is too vague for me to fully appreciate.

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Thank you all for you answers, so far.
 
Evolute,

I have never hunted with a rifle for the very reason that it seems too easy, and also because there is increased risk of injury if you go out with several thousand other rifle hunters and try to all shoot the same deer. I've heard too many wierd stories.

Regarding your comment "Please explain to me why hunting is your method of choice for reminding yourself that you are part of the natural order": When I hunt with bow & arrows I feel like I am participating in a timeless event. This is how all of our ancestors hunted at some time or another during our cultures' lithic ages. Granted, I hunt with a compound bow, but the experience still feels timeless. I also forage for mushrooms, roots, berries, etc. and it adds to the experience, but the hunt has almost a ritualistic quality to it that can't be replaced by roots and berries. It has a substance that vibrates to the core of your being. I really can't explain it any other way, and maybe not everybody experiences this.

Regarding your comment "You might want to try taking your boots off and going barefoot": I hunt with mocassins. While it is not exactly the barefoot experience it is much better than boots. When I am wearing boots I'll sometimes take them off for stalking and stalk either barefoot or in my socks. I know that you are the barefoot king from a previous thread about a year ago, and I think that's great. I just haven't gotten that much into it - yet.

Hey Lonehunter, when you go hunting naked please warn us all first! :eek:
 
Re: what seems so sporting about it all?

Hunting is not just about killing: it is also about societal interaction. Men have long used hunting trips to teach their sons about a multitude of things and to pass along a heritage to them. It is a ‘together’ activity where a boy gets to learn things about his dad that he would never learn anywhere else. It is a chance for a father to explain to his son the realities of life – and death – and that there are patterns, chains and cycles.

For example, my son’s coming of age events will include a First Knife, then a First Gun, and then a First Hunt. By the time he is sixteen I hope to have educated him on foraging for wild foods, hunting, tracking, survival skills, and above all, how to be a responsible adult. Then, on his sixteenth birthday he will be publicly recognized as a man.

The hunt runs much more deeply in our veins than just a bloodlust. It is a connecting point.
 
I think there are too many variables for a cut & dried answer.
I hunt in the NY Catskill mountains. Opening day can get crowded on the more popular state land. That will make the hunt a little more challanging.
I know fellas that hunt private land (not too far from whre I hunt) that is complete with feeders and food plots. They always have venison in their fridges, come fall. Now that isn't for me. Neither is going up a tree...again, that's just me. ;)
When we come off the mountain at dusk, driving along, there will be dozens of deer along the road and in front yards. They know where it is safe!
I like the Zen/Meditation angle.
I've done some of my best thinking while making like a rock.
I've had birds land on the muzzle of my shotgun. As long as you're warm sitting/posting is the way to go.
I enjoy the total hunt package. The trip with friends, breakfast @ Oh Dark Thirty in the diner, the recounting of your day's events on the ride back to the motel...even the ride home.
Not to mention another fine day in the woods. Sunrise over a snow covered valley is something to behold...
It's not about the killing, its an excuse to get out in the woods...and maybe bring home some venison :)
And if I don't, I still had a good time.
Cheers,
Ebbtide
 
Hunting philosophy

As Jose Ortega y Gasset states in "Meditations on Hunting":

"...killing is not the exclusive purpose of hunting." [p.45]

"To the sportsman the death of the game is not what interests
him; that is not his purpose. What interests him is everything
that he had to do to achieve that death - that is, the
hunt. Therefore what was before only a means to an end is now an
end in itself. Death is essential because without it there is no
authentic hunting: the killing of the animal is the natural end
of the hunt and that goal of hunting itself, not of the
hunter. The hunter seeks this death because it is no less than
the sign of reality for the whole hunting process. To sum up, one
does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in
order to have hunted." [p.96-97]

Jose Ortega y Gasset. 1985. "Meditations on Hunting". Charles
Scribner's Sons, New York. ISBN 0-684-18630-6
 
Originally posted by Evolute
It seems to me to be false that most trophy hunting, particularly with a rifle, is meaningfully a sport.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that most people here aren't talking about trophy hunting (trying to get into Boone & Crockett), but are talking about hunting for food, which is a different beast entirely.

Trophy hunting can range from an extremely difficult multi-year quest to shooting specimens on a game 'farm', so it's hard to generalize. I believe, though, that if you're not going to eat it, you shouldn't be shooting it, so I don't have much use for trophy hunting.

I'm going to Africa on safari in two years, but I'm planning on using my camera, mostly.
 
I've hunted with everything from a slingshot (five of them) to a spear to a bow (longbow, recurve, and compound) to a handgun to a muzzleloader to a scoped rifle. The one thing I couldn't get the hang of was a friend's atlatl. That would take some serious training for me.

In any event, the part of your question that throws me a bit is the term "trophy hunting." I've hunted with many different hunters for a variety of species but have never hunted with someone who was a "trophy hunter". I know that they are certainly out there (look at the African safari business, where you can't bring back your meat). However, I think that a significant percentage of hunters want the hunting experience first, with the meat being important and the trophy being secondary. Remember that in most jurisdictions it is a serious crime to take a trophy and leave the meat behind. I've never taken anything to a taxidermist for preparation as a trophy. The most I would do is a European-style skull mount of some decent antlers.

Although hunting with a scoped, high-power centerfire rifle certainly eliminates some of the hunting challenges, you need only look at success rates to see that it can still be difficult (depending upon the location and the prey). Last time that I hunted elk on public land in Oregon, I believe that the published success rate was less than six percent. When you looked at the figures more carefully, it was probably below four percent. I was hunting with several experienced hunters who had taken a lot of elk and deer previously and none of us filled our tag that year.
 
I stopped hunting decades ago, but I never considered it particularly easy, especially if you were truely hunting for sport.

You get up early in the pre dawn hours, dawn multiple layers of clothing, drive as close as you can to a suitable hunting spot, hike for an hour and find a good clearing. You sit there in zub-zero temperatures waiting. Then as the sun comes up you carefully scout around your position to see whether anyone has moved into your line of fire. Make sure you look extra thorughly because there are always some very intelligent bow hunters running around during rifle season in full camo (I walked to one of them once and asked them why they hadn't bother to signal me - I knew they had seen me becuase I was dressed in hunters orange - he said not to worry, if I were to had shot in his direction he would have ducked. :rolleyes: )

Once you get that out of your system you still have to find a good animal. That is not easy to do during hunting season. Sure, there may be a couple in your back yard, where it is illegal to harvest them, But in the woods they are faster, have great instincts, and have much better senses than you do. You on the other hand need to wait on the right animal, and you need to determine that it is the right animal, and the right shot, before you squeeze the trigger.

Hunting even with a rifle is not easy. The easy stuff is called poaching, and you are right, poaching is not very sporting.

n2s
 
Hey Lonehunter, I hope you wear an orange condom when you're out naked hunting!:eek:

On a much, much smaller scale over here I've noticed that "if you're not dangerous, game doesn't hide" phenomenon too. Even as a lad, stalking pigeon with an air gun in the local woods, if I ran out of pellets the buggers would be everywhere, mocking me, where an hour earlier they would spook well beyond my little rifle's range.
I like to think I have a scientific, analytical mind, I'm not really a believer in some sort of pychic sense that the animals have to determine my true intentions, but I can't deny they keep doing it:confused: Perhaps it is the genuine smell of fear, when stalking my adrenalin rises, perhaps there is a pheremone that I'm unconciously giving off that the prey can distinquish as "threat" or "no threat" when I'm walking home.
Yes, I know I should be down-wind :D Perhaps if I think happy Bambi thoughts right up till the last second....
 
I've hunted with bows, handguns, rifles and muzzleloaders and all have their challenges. Just because one has a rifle and can hit out to a quarter of a mile doesn't mean that the deer is in the bag as soon as it's seen. I've missed some ridiculously easy shots at under 50 yards because I was so shaken with 'buck fever.' Even on animals without antlers the adrenaline starts pumping and you have to CONCENTRATE!

For some guys, rifle hunting has become so easy that they start limiting their targets. This year nothing but a 4x4 will do, next year it becomes a 5x5, the following year a 5x5 that is bigger than last years, etc. It's all a matter of what you are hunting.

Personally, I hunt for meat with the rifle. Since I've hunted with other weapons that make it more challenging for me, I don't make a challenge of it with the rifle. The rifle puts the venison in my freezer so I can enjoy more hunting and more challenges with the other weapons. However, sometimes the season makes a challenge for rifle hunting. This year we had extremely unseasonable warm weather and no snow. Deer hunting was VERY DIFFICULT for rifle hunters. We had a record number of hunters and tags, but no more kills due to the weather. I for one, went without a deer this rifle season because of this. Normally I can hunt 4-6 days tops and have my deer for the freezer, not this year, I hunted 10 days unsuccessfully! :(

Your woods skills are MUCH better than most rifle hunters!! Most rifle hunters are not woodsman, but your common worker who gets out hunting less than 2 weeks a year! At my peak, I was able to get into the woods for excursions and hunting approximately 80-100 days a year!! This is no longer possible for me, but that time spent back then gave me the skills I need to continue to hunt as a woodsman. I have NEVER shot a deer past 125 yards and most are under 50 yards! Most guys in my area have to confess to short shots of over 100 yards and many out as far as 350 yards or more!! We hunt the same areas, but our skills vary greatly!

I envy your job and wish I had a camera about 90% of the time I had a weapon on me while in the woods. I could have come home with some awesome pictures...The closest was a doe and 4x4 buck within 4 yards!! No way in the world I could have shot either of them that close, but with a proper camera I could have had some awesome pictures! :)

"Why do I hunt?" There are many reasons: I like the meat, I enjoy being in the woods and the thrill of the hunt itself. The death is rather anticlimatic and that's where the 'work' begins. Having the satisfication that I can 'make meat' on my own is another bonus. I process the deer myself from field to freezer...Many can't say that. I also enjoy learning the prey...I spend countless hours in the field before and after season learning their habits and concentrate on one area and a small number of deer. I learn their habits, trails and schedules. It's a complete process, I don't just walk out to the woods opening morning and shoot the first deer I 'happen' to get close to. This is hunting!!

Also, as I used to tell my mother when she'd complain about all the time and money I spent on hunting, "I could be sitting in the bar with all my buddies wasting the time and spending five times the money on booze!! At least I'm getting something to eat, improving my outdoor skills and having fun doing it without harming anybody else."
That was usually enough.

Hope something here helps you understand.
 
I want to thank you all, again, for your openness to my questions, and your generous answers.

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mwelch8404 said:

"Just learn how to field dress, and be safe and proficient with your "weapon" of choice.

Good eatin'"

Could someone direct me to specific books, online resources, etc., to learn how to field dress an animal? I may try hunting for food and skins; even if I don't, I want to be able to field dress fresh road kill I come across. I think I could save a lot of money which normally goes to food expenses, while eating higher quality meat.

Thanks.
 
Evolve,

Be very careful with road kill. Depending on the climate, fresh meat will spoil very quickly, and the animals found by the side of the road may have been deseased. You are going to end up seriously sick if you go down that road. One of the things you want to do while hunting is to observe the animal a little bit to make sure they are healthy.

There are plenty of books around that can give you some tips on game preparation; but, if you can the fastest way to learn would be to join a local hunting club and go along for a hike. If nothing else I am sure that you will get some interesting pictures.

n2s
 
Lots of great answers guys.I can't really hunt them with a spear, its illegal.

From the answers one can see,where you hunt has a lot to do with it.How many deer and hunters,and if the deer are used to people.Its kind of funny but the rural,open,out in the sticks areas often have the least deer and the hardest hunting,while the suburbs have the "best" hunting and often the most muture bucks.:)

My best stand is less then 1/2 mile from my "track" home,200 feet from a parking lot,I watch people walk their dogs. I've had 3 mature bucks walking around my stand while guys 2oo feet away are starting cars and yelling at each other.

Another spot I hunt is along side the NYS thurway,and has a golf coarse on another side.Shot one about a chip shot away from a sand trap.:D (I don't yell four though)

ofcoarse,having 7 weeks off a year and being off during the day about 23 days a month gives me alot of hunt time.:D
 
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the more "sporting" a hunt becomes, the more an animal is apt to suffer. For example if a hunter with a high-powered rifle shoots an animal in a vital spot, that animal is probably dead within a matter of 4-5 minutes if not immmediately. Whereas shooting it with a ".22" might be more "sporting" (not to mention illegal), but the animal would not die immediately, in fact perhaps not even for several days. Which way is more humane? Well I've always been taught that when you kill an animal, any animal, make it's death as painless and as quick as possible.
Due to the success of conservation practices, deer in many areas of this country will overpopulate the available resources if not hunted.
If deer have to be killed, let it be done as quickly and as painlessly to the animal as possible. High-powered rifles do take some of the "sport" out of a hunt, but they are a very effective tool to get the job done. It does take time, skill, and practice to get proficient with one. Muzzle-loaders, bow-and-arrows, etc. are weapons that take perhaps even more effort to become proficient in and
tend to have a more limited range.
Personally, I hunt because I enjoy being out in nature snd I enjoy the sense of accomplishment of a good kill. Hunting and fishing have helped to teach me a love of nature, and the importance of conserving natural resources.
 
Evolute,

I don't have field dressing links handy, but if you come over to www.huntamerica.com and run the search function, I'm sure there will be links. If you are specifically interested in how to field dress deer, I'd search the Deer Hunting Forum first.

Fellow Bladeforums member GC and I are the Forum Leaders for the Huntamerica Knife Forum, if you feel like stopping by.
 
A modern centerfire rifle is not a point and click death ray. Conditions, ranges, angles, obstructions.... heck a dozen factors off the top of my head can make the difference between a deer in the freezer and a deer fleeing to the next county. Proficiency with a long range rifle is no simple thing to acquire.

I hunt for various reasons. First and foremost is to put good tasting, lean meat into my freezer. Meat that I know has been prepared properly, hasn't been injected with any steroids or pesticides, and in sufficient quantity to last me and my family roughly a year. I am not a sport hunter, I am a subsistence hunter.

Second, I love being out in the wilds away from town. Some people choose an organized religion. Not me. Woods and sky is my church, thanx. Good reason to hang out with the fellas and soak up some oxygen and silence.

Thirdly, it is a legitimate reason (to my wife) to be out swilling beer for a weekend. "Hunting Camp" has to be one of the greatest times for me of the entire year. Kinda like a holiday. None of you tell the wife this, ya hear..... she think's I'm roughing it out there.

Coyotlviejo, you need to come up and hunt with us, you sound like my kinda predator. We generally hike around the regular season, seeing the sights and breathing the air. Then we buckle down during extended buck season to get the freezer level back up there.
 
Keep in mind that most of the difficulty is in time and accessibility, not in skill.
Most people don't live in prime hunting area, and most people aren't out looking for game all the time. If you can't go to where the best hunting is, you hunt where you can go. The "average" hunter has a day or two at a time. He's limited to where and when he can go. If he's fortunate enough to be a member of a hunting club that has a good plot of land that's well maintained, with a good population, been scouted right up to the start of the season, mapped out and marked...bam, he's likely to be successful. That's alot of "ifs".
You may be able to go where the deer live, blend in, and slip up on them. Fine. What you can't do is come to where Joe Blow lives, drive twenty minutes to hit the closest convenient spot before daylight, and conjure up a whitetail out of thin air.
It's alot harder to find a needle in a haystack, than in a stack of needles.
 
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