Is it just China D2?

Ok it’s the knife that no one else seems to have a problem with. That’s more likely
I’m betting it’s a wire edge and that’s the problem.
 
I wasn't meaning to be rude, but you seem to have taken my answer in the wrong way. Let me specify. I am not a sharpening expert, but I have watched many videos, and have researched the subject quite a bit. With my setup, I am able to get edges that are definitely sharp enough for my purposes. Not hair-whittling, but catalog paper slicing, treetopping, etc. I am familiar with how a wire edge would act, and my edge lasts a lot longer than a wire edge should. I also progressed through a 200, 1,000, 6,000 and a strop, and could feel no hint of a burr. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard of wire edges, this doesn't seem to act like one.
 
Asterisk said:
I wasn't meaning to be rude, but you seem to have taken my answer in the wrong way. Let me specify. I am not a sharpening expert, but I have watched many videos, and have researched the subject quite a bit. With my setup, I am able to get edges that are definitely sharp enough for my purposes. Not hair-whittling, but catalog paper slicing, treetopping, etc. I am familiar with how a wire edge would act, and my edge lasts a lot longer than a wire edge should. I also progressed through a 200, 1,000, 6,000 and a strop, and could feel no hint of a burr. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard of wire edges, this doesn't seem to act like one.
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Its not the steel that's causing your low edge retention. What could it be? Have you removed the old damaged edge by running it across a stone then re make your apex.

Also id recommend diamonds still. Not trying it, isnt helping you. D2 is very hard steel. My d2 @61hrc and cryo cannot be sharpened with anything but diamonds. SiC is another abrasive that should work well, but not as fast. I'd like to know this research you've read.

Also 200 to 1000 and 1000 to 6000 seems like too far a jump.

A wire edge may not be felt if it's too small. Likely can be viewed from above. In a dark room shine light at the apex and see if there are any glints of light. A microscope or jewelers loup can help too. I'm not suggesting this is the issue but another way to make sure it's not.
 
Mo2 said:
Its not the steel that's causing your low edge retention. What could it be? Have you removed the old damaged edge by running it across a stone then re make your apex.

Also id recommend diamonds still. Not trying it, isnt helping you. D2 is very hard steel. My d2 @61hrc and cryo cannot be sharpened with anything but diamonds. SiC is another abrasive that should work well, but not as fast. I'd like to know this research you've read.

Also 200 to 1000 and 1000 to 6000 seems like too far a jump.

A wire edge may not be felt if it's too small. Likely can be viewed from above. In a dark room shine light at the apex and see if there are any glints of light. A microscope or jewelers loup can help too. I'm not suggesting this is the issue but another way to make sure it's not.
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I have come to suspect that it's not the steel as well, although I'm not ruling out the possibility of a faulty heat treat. More likely it's my sharpening, and the stressed steel on the edge. I'm not saying diamonds won't help, I'm just saying I don't have them, and I don't plan on purchasing them. They are rather expensive. I have no issue raising a large burr on my 200 grit aluminum oxide stone. My approach to removing a wire edge, is to raise it on either side on my coarse stone, and then to alternate with single strokes, lightening with pressure, sometimes drawing the knife through wood between stages, and stropping after the sharpening. I may look into getting a jewelers loupe however.

Here is some of my research I was able to remember.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX-GOva2m3E

https://gearjunkie.com/how-to-sharpen-knife-whetstone

https://www.knifeplanet.net/freehand-knife-sharpening-common-issues/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4XgLgvqjYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB87xoFm46g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5stV_1kID-U

https://blog.poachedjobs.com/2017/08/30/how-to-sharpen-a-knife/
 
New knives all have some sort of slight brittleness of the edge, it should settle down after a couple sharpening sessions, try not to polish too much the edge, if the steel composition is a bit on the soft side it can cause some carbide particle to tear out, that would impact edge retention greatly on D2. Also in my experience good D2 does not produce burr. If it doesn't improve with a couple sharpening, I would suspect you have a lemon.
 
The lansky diamond kit is about 80 and if you buy the stones separately they around just under 20 a piece.

The venev stones are a bit more but they are double sided and will last much longer. Here's from a vendor here
https://www.gritomatic.com/products/venev-bonded-diamond-for-lansky

So yea they are fairly expensive.

If you want diamond paste Cktg has some that fits your budget. Really affordable stuff for single digit prices.

Here's a vid with the gatco, similar to the lansky. Costs are similar too for diamond hones.

Here's cliffs video on removing the bad edge before sharpening... Nothing to do with d2 though.

 
Asterisk said:
Well this D2 most definitely produces a burr. What grit would you recommend finishing at?
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Well if it is real D2 you should get a very toothy edge with a coarse diamond plate

If it produce a lot of burr make sure the apex of the edge is complete before trying to remove it and I would really doubt the steel to be something else.

edge1.jpg


This has 2 years of use since last real sharpening at 600 grit. The apex started to convex and the teeth started to fade also, from periodic stropping.
 
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Comeuppance said:
As has been stated, heat treatment and edge geometry will dramstically change one’s experience with a blade steel.

“China D2” is a redundant statement, as D2 is D2 no matter where it is from. It’s an alloy made with a specific ratio of various elements. The only real consideration is that there are numerous companies who erroneously call 8Cr, 9Cr, and 440C “D2”, but larger brands are almost always a safe bet as far as getting what they advertise.
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Not all steel created equal even if they are labeled as the same.

Especially when you compare Chinese made product to something like European or Japanese made.

Many makers here have been work with 5155, D2 and 440c from China and they are always has lower quality. The steel impurity is way higher and sometime you can even see visible carbide banding in low alloy steel from them.

These lead to lower toughness and hardness from heat treat. Right now most makers try to avoid Chinese made steel if they could.
 
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shqxk said:
Not all steel created equal even if they are labeled as the same.

Especially when you compare Chinese made product to something like European or Japanese made.

Many makers here have been work with 5155, D2 and 440c from China and they are always has lower quality. The steel impurity is way higher and sometime you can even see visible carbide banding in low alloy steel from them.

These lead to lower toughness and hardness from heat treat. Right now most makers try to avoid Chinese made steel if they could.
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The steel used in this particular brand and other large Chinese names is going to be bohler k110. Unless the supplier gave them something different which can happen. Apparently ch a Chinese brand had paid for d2 for one of there first knives and it ended up being 8cr13mov. In any case that can happen, but generally is correct for the larger names in China for established companies.

The difference you see in performance is generally the heat treatment and geometry. If you look at the collection of hrc in the Google spreadsheet you see various hrc values for d2 knives made in China.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/htmlview

I'm sure some of those in d2 may not be bohler, but it's anyones guess what they are for unknown companies who don't communicate with us.
 
Mo2 said:
The steel used in this particular brand and other large Chinese names is going to be bohler k110. Unless the supplier gave them something different which can happen. Apparently ch a Chinese brand had paid for d2 for one of there first knives and it ended up being 8cr13mov. In any case that can happen, but generally is correct for the larger names in China for established companies.

The difference you see in performance is generally the heat treatment and geometry. If you look at the collection of hrc in the Google spreadsheet you see various hrc values for d2 knives made in China.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OepNr_D4lqbdTFqdqWl1rmAd4bOzPzJe6J0iEWrdJGU/htmlview

I'm sure some of those in d2 may not be bohler, but it's anyones guess what they are for unknown companies who don't communicate with us.
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The difference in performance that I said is from the quality of the steel itself because they are being heat treated the same and pretty similar geometry. I never heat treat any Chinese made steel personally but I have been in the knife making scene here for quite a while and have seen several report from my knife maker friend about the inferior of China steel.

I only bought steel from B/U or some US stuff and I have a hobby heat treating high alloy steel for knife makers here.
 
Asterisk said:
Well this D2 most definitely produces a burr. What grit would you recommend finishing at?
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All knife steels can produce a burr or “wire edge” when sharpened. Some are just worse for it than others.
 
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