Is it legal to carry handcuff keys concealed?

interesting group (and website), grover.....
 
Dysentery Bob said:
To others on this post, sorry for the rant, long day and tired of cop bashing people who have no clue.
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Sorry I missed this earlier... no we do have a clue - it just does not agree with the bow down and worship attitude LEO's that feel picked on because we don't deem them MORE worthy than us expect... and yes if you don't feel like you are paid enough or safe enough you can find other work but I am sure any LEO would be smart enough to realize that...although alot would not want to become a second class citizen that is less trustworthy just by quiting the job so and alot decide to stay.

Dysentery Bob said:
So I'll tell you this, I am a cop to the core, I'll live my life to the standards expected of me by both the department and my family
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you might also try applying the same standards to the people you work for and not treat them as people with LESS RIGHTS....
Again whether or not you see it there is attitude in the form of "you and yours deserving better protection than the rest of us" through-out your reply. The really sad part is you only see it as cop bashing. Actually not only is it sad but scary...

Now all this does not mean I can't and don't respect the position, I do. I will never let an officer go without help if he needs it from me- but I definately don't see ANY LEO as more worthy than anyone else... and to paraphrase what you said earlier not " my safety, or the safety of my family for anybody"...
 
I will not attempt to change your opinion or attitude. With that said, first about the family statement, the difference between people working at Wal-mart, Target or other types of jobs such as ...landscaping is it does not entail enforcement aspects. The people in these lines of work do not have to enforce the laws, take part in the taking of peoples freedoms with jail time or at its worst, take their lives. That make LEOs prime targets to a greater degree than the average person. Never have I said that my family or myself is more important to anybody else.

Next is your issue that LEOs carry firarms outside of their jurisdictions. Please be aware of HR 218. http://leaa.org/218/218text.html

You have never met me so you have no knowledge of my enforcement style or personal beliefs. That said this topic is closed to me.
 
Bob,As I said- you say there is a higher risk to you- that may be true but we all face some risk- whether it is a nutcase or someone out to get you- LEO's should not be given extra ability to protect themselves just because. Actually per populace who gets attacked more an officer or a regular folk? Seems to me that the regular folk and thier families are attacked more. You see it differently. The background checks I have had and the permits I have should give me the same carry rights you want and feel you deserve. Whether your risk may be higher or not does not mean that us regular folk should have less rights than you as a leo when it comes to carry and defense. The constitution has given me those same rights. You say that you never said you or yours is more important but with your reasoning of higher risk it screams it. I don't doubt you are a decent man and Officer but at some level there is that attitude that you deserve more in the self defense arena than the rest of us should have and that is NOT right... And one's job is not the only thing to put him at risk Bob- I have spent quite a bit of time in ugly area's with some interesting youth and adults doing ministry and I have been threatened enough to make me careful too-nothing will a make you think quite as much as an eight year old saying he outa cut you up just because you won't let him beat another kid up at a basketball outreach and you cop buddy informs you he has seen the kids they run with do it..or have the same kids throwing rocks at you because they thought the outcome of a tournement was not what they thought it should be.Or had parents get mad at the game to the point of anger and infer stuff. These are the same gang guys you deal with. You see not every one likes someone who would bring people up and out of the filth they live in or near even if they are not LEO. So as much as you say I don't know you I would imagine that works two ways. And this is from someone who invests time and money in the community without even getting peanuts for it, well not from man anyway- God does take care of me pretty well- why is my ability to defend myself less important just because I am not LEO?- and that isn't even going into the constitutional rights issues...

BTW- I never will carry a gun doing Gods work around the kids- I have never felt the need for he does and always will protect me while I am out there. But I do occasionally see people who would tend to make me watch a bit closer when out and about and as you say you will never know
 
Daniel Koster said:
interesting group (and website), grover.....
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...And now an exhausted group. Three shows in three days are a killer. But it was worth it. Two near-capacity shows and one that sold out half an hour before midnight. With jokes that really brought the house down (sound-dropping into a choreographed re-enactment of the bananna-boat-song scene from Beetlejuice is much funnier than it should be) Rocky Horror usually isn't this rewarding. :D
 
It is very common for terrorists, kidnappers, rapists, and murderers to use handcuffs. I would consider it very reasonable to keep a concealed cuff key or a shim on your person. It has nothing to do with LEO's. For the same reason I like the idea of a small concealed knife at all times.
 
Dysentery Bob said:
I will not attempt to change your opinion or attitude. With that said, first about the family statement, the difference between people working at Wal-mart, Target or other types of jobs such as ...landscaping is it does not entail enforcement aspects. The people in these lines of work do not have to enforce the laws....
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And by my reckoning, that is a big part of why society is as f*ed up as it is, folks see things as "someone else's job" over and over. Even at the stores you mentioned (and the ones you didn't) this attitude is prevalent, i.e. "that's not in my department," "I'm on break," etc. I think that society is as messed up because noone takes seriously their responsibility to each other to protect the common peace. Would you be in favor of getting rid of "citizen's arrest" because it is archaic and promotes vigilanteism? Or would you prefer we keep it on the books, because there just aren't enough cops to go around? My FiL is a police detective, and my wife gets defensive ever time I rant about the cops abusing their power. Note I said "power" not "authority"; "We the People" assigned some of our authority to the police to do these unpleasant tasks, but that doesn't mean We gave them absolute powers in this area. Unfortunately, "We the People" have forgotten this and turned ourselves into sheeple, fighting over the crumbs from the master's table.

Matt in Texas
 
Handcuffs,handcuff keys?? Why would a citizen have a need for them(If hes not criminaly minded. Ever here of false imprisonment,kiddnaping,unlawfull arrest,unlawfull restraint etc.?? Make a good civil lawsuit.
As for a LEO and gun carrey- Ya gotta be one or know one well to understand why they should and are required to carrey when off duty which technically they are on duty 24/7.At least LEO's are trained .Better the LEO's carrying than civilans whos law training is only from TV shows and Talk radio or just plain hearsay. Dont get me wrong,I am a civilen and I carrey and I am a great supporter of the 2nd amdt. But I surley wont complain if a LEO carries in a posted building.
By The Way- Isn't this a KNIFE FORUM??
 
Demaske4 said:
At least LEO's are trained .Better the LEO's carrying than civilans whos law training is only from TV shows and Talk radio or just plain hearsay.
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Ask Gollnick sometime about the per-capita ratio of violent crimes committed by CCW-carrying civilians versus those committed by LEOs.
 
heres florida law on concealed handcuff keys

Unlawful possession of a concealed handcuff key.--

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "In custody" means any time while a person has been placed in handcuffs by a law enforcement officer, regardless of whether such person is under formal arrest.

(b) "handcuff key" means any key, tool, device, implement, or other thing used, designed, or intended to aid in unlocking or removing handcuffs.

(c) "Concealed handcuff key" means any handcuff key carried by a person in a manner that indicates an intent to prevent discovery of the key by a law enforcement officer, including, but not limited to, a handcuff key carried:

1. In a pocket of a piece of clothing of a person, and unconnected to any key ring;

2. On a necklace of a person;

3. On the body part of a person or on any item of clothing of such person, when the handcuff key is secured on the body part or item of clothing by use of tape, glue, line, or other material;

4. In or within any compartment, seam, fold, or other encasement within any item of clothing, belt, shoe, or jewelry of a person;

5. In or within any sock, hose, shoe, belt, undergarment, glove, hat, or similar item of clothing or accessory of a person;

6. By a person and disguised as jewelry or other object; or

7. In or within any body cavity of a person.

(2) Any person who possesses a concealed handcuff key commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) It is a defense to a charge of violating this section that, immediately upon being placed in custody, the person in custody actually and effectively disclosed to the law enforcement officer that he or she was in possession of a concealed handcuff key.

(4)(a) It is a defense to a charge of violating this section that the person in custody and in possession of a concealed handcuff key is:

1. A federal, state, or local law enforcement officer, including a reserve or auxiliary officer, a licensed security officer, or a private investigator as defined in s. 493.6101; or

2. A professional bail bond agent, temporary bail bond agent, runner, or limited surety agent as defined in s. 648.25.

(b) However, the defense is not available to any officer, investigator, agent, or runner listed in this subsection if the officer, investigator, agent, or runner, immediately upon being placed in custody, fails to actually and effectively disclose possession of the concealed handcuff key.
 
Dysentery Bob said:
Interesting post which brings out many opinions.
From my knowledge, its not illegal in Georgia to have a hand cuff key on your person. With that in mind, if you are hand cuffed and searched, it may or may not be found. If it is, I'll just toss it out if your going to jail, your in hand cuffs for a reason. If I don't find and you get out of the cuffs, and attempt to walk away, Ill also charge you with everything I legally can to make your life hell. Once back in custody, I'll shackle you and place hinge handcuffs and standard cuffs on you to prevent you from doing this again. But again, I do not know of any law in Georgia making it illegal to posses handcuff keys.

Remember, police officers have been killed in the line of duty by arrested suspects who had these hidden keys on them, so I am very suspicious of persons with these items when they are in the opposite occupation as mine. The LOD incident involved the two Flordi detectives who unknownly had custody of a murder. He killed both of the detectives, a child and then took his own life. That dead suspect girlfriend knew he lied about his identity and now she is being charged for the deaths, I hope she burns.

In response to TallPaul's statements, in any line of work, you always have idiots/*******s. The statement "...Typical LEO attitude..." is out of place. Unless you know every LEO in the USA, you can't make a generalized statement like this. That is like saying all white Southerners are rednecks that live in trailor parks. It's wrong to assume.

To continue on, not all contacts on the street are cuffed for our safety. Thats only utilized when have reason to do so. If I am dealing with a suspect or multiple suspects that give me clue / signs that they are deceptive or that they furtive in movements, then I will take all precautions to safe guard others as well as myself. If that means everyone goes into handcuffs until I complete my investigation, so be it.

Last of all is the fact that this officer carried his off-duty weapon into church. Even if its out of his jurisdiction, does that mean criminals don't travel or go to church? What happens to this officer and his family while on the way to or from church when he bumps into a person who is carring a grudge against him. If he follows your train of though and goes unarmed, both he and his family may be killed. Remember the phrase, "...a dead witness is a good witness..."

Tell you what, this may make you mad, but I'll carry my weapon(both guns and knives) anywhere I can, even outside of my jurisdiction. Now I will not carry in a foreign nation, then again I live in the beautiful USA, so I have many places to visit here so I don't have to leave our borders. If I am with my family, you can bet I am armed, if you don't like it, tough for you. The City of Savannah pays me to police my city and county for less than $20.00 per hour. That does not mean that I am going to sacrifice my safety, the safety of my fellow officer or my families for anybody.
Also here is a little clue for you, officers in a Court of law are held at a higher standards that your average non-LEO. We are even held at a higher standard that corrupt lawyers, go figure. That means we face higher penalties and sentences.

Remember that you ask these people to put their lives on the line to protect and serve for peanuts for salaries, then slap them in the face for every thing you have a gripe about. You never take into account that the families of officers are also at risk since they are always soft targets for retribution. I could continue, but I will not. It would serve no purpose to do so, I expect you to respond that maybe I should leave my job if I am concerned about my family. So I'll tell you this, I am a cop to the core, I'll live my life to the standards expected of me by both the department and my family. I have accepted the risks as well as the benefits given to police officers. So if you a problem with police officers, the next time you need one, don't call and solve your own problem. You will then find our true value.

To others on this post, sorry for the rant, long day and tired of cop bashing people who have no clue.

Opps, again, as for as I know, its still not illegal to carry a hand cuff key here. If you have one, just tell the officer that you other half is kind of kinky and you like to have an escape plan in case they get too rough.
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That was a great post!! I am very much pro-LEO. I was thinking exactly what you posted about the LEO carrying his gun in church!! And there are people out there that will kill any LEO just simply because they ARE a LEO. Anyway! Thank you for your post!
 
Demaske4 said:
As for a LEO and gun carrey- Ya gotta be one or know one well to understand why they should and are required to carrey when off duty which technically they are on duty 24/7.At least LEO's are trained .Better the LEO's carrying than civilans whos law training is only from TV shows and Talk radio or just plain hearsay.
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Remember those cops in new york that heard that guy say the word gun, so they followed him, pointed a gun at him (in plain clothes) so he ran the cop over, and the other cop shot 50 some odd rounds at the car.... only about 9 of those rounds hit the car. Thats some damn good training you receive sirs! i thought this training was supposed to make them less trigger happy.

My point is, cops can't hold their so called "training" above the rest of us. Common sense would have told the cops not to do what they did, but they lacked common sense... and you should not need training for that.

The only training that could have helped avoid unnecessary casualties is marksmanship. But when only 9 rounds hit a target the size of a car... I just don't know what to say. A first time shooter could have done better. I was at the range the other day and saw a 7 year old kid shoot, and not miss... and the target was only the size of a dinner plate.

On top of all that, what was the cops punishment for murder? None. Oh they said they put him behind a desk... but what kind of punishment is that? If the punishment for murder for the average civilian was Time-out...we would see a lot more of it.

Civilians have a much harder time with the law than cops do, so they are less likely to randomly shoot someone. If a civilian shoots someone, even for 100% right reasons, they willl have to go through the court system, with a lawyer... which costs a lot of money, and takes a lot of time.

who knows, now im beginning to rant, and I will quit talking (or typing, whatever it is called online)
 
This has the potential to be a decent thread, but it can also easily turn into a flame war. I'm not going to lock it for now. I'll monitor and see how things go.
 
Remember those cops in new york that heard that guy say the word gun, so they followed him, pointed a gun at him (in plain clothes) so he ran the cop over, and the other cop shot 50 some odd rounds at the car.... only about 9 of those rounds hit the car. Thats some damn good training you receive sirs! i thought this training was supposed to make them less trigger happy.
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It's a statistical fact that a majority of shots fired in line of duty shootings miss- the number is well over 80%- so this . I have a feeling that adreneline has something to do with it. You can nail the target every time. Shoot an action match or man on man plates, and look at where the bullets land and how many shots you need to take down the targets.

FYI- those 50 rounds were a combined total fired by multiple officers, not 1.

Carrying a concealed handcuff key is moronic. For those of you afraid of terrorists or kidnappers, whadya think they're going to do to you when you uncuff yourself?

And BTW, it's very difficult to get yourself out of hinged cuffs. Chain cuffs are doable, but even those can be a pain depending on where the key slots are when they're put on.
 
Holy thread resurrection, Batman! :jerkit:
 
I have seen belt buckles in which a handcuff key was incorporated into the design . . . although one needs to unbuckle one's belt to utilize it.

Criminals use handcuffs as well . . . and many LEOs and bail bondsmen use handcuffs with "security keys" that a generic key will not work in (difficult to pick, too).
 
mp510 said:
It's a statistical fact that a majority of shots fired in line of duty shootings miss- the number is well over 80%- so this . I have a feeling that adreneline has something to do with it. You can nail the target every time. Shoot an action match or man on man plates, and look at where the bullets land and how many shots you need to take down the targets.
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there are several physiological responses a person goes through when presented with a high stress situation, in particular a deadly encounter.

adrenaline dump, tunnel vision (arguable), tachypsychia, loss of fine motor skills, hearing loss, to name the most common.

all these contribute to one's inability to perform exactly as they do in a training scenario. but, the more one trains, the higher the probability they will perform close to that level. also, the more often one encounters a deadly force situation, the better they will perform.

training provides "stress inoculation" when instituted properly. though no training can perfectly simulate any real world scenario, the idea is to induce stress on the individual in the hopes that the stress they feel in the field does not cause them to react inappropriately, however that may be.

think of it this way, when hitting golf balls on the driving range, you are just killing the ball. straight and true, every time. but get on the course, and put some skins money on the line, and suddenly what you thought you could do so perfectly, has gone right out the window. however, with enough practice and "stress" playing, you get better and better with money on the line.


and fwiw, i am of the opinion that many of the preceding posts were by the same user with different names.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
.....training provides "stress inoculation" when instituted properly. though no training can perfectly simulate any real world scenario, the idea is to induce stress on the individual in the hopes that the stress they feel in the field does not cause them to react inappropriately, however that may be.....
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Our range used to have a couple of hours set aside each week for the training of security people from a highly-respected, international Executive Protection outfit. I always stuck around to watch the first class. First, they were told to run back and forth between the two ranges five times at full speed, then they had to stop at their station and do ten push-ups, get up, pick up their firearm and shoot at human-silhouette paper targets. Most had trouble just hitting the targets! (And these were experienced, often "competitive" shooters). But over the course of a few weeks, they all got back in the groove. Stress can have a strange effect on the message that goes from the brain to the muscle! ;)
 
Planterz said:
Holy thread resurrection, Batman! :jerkit:
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lol , that's what I was thinking while reading the posts , after I realized the thread was like 3 years old. :)


I carry what I want , when I want and that does include two handcuff keys , one on my truck keys and one in my wallet.
 
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