Is it possible to be a knifemaker yet not be part of the "knife industry"?

Charlie Mike

Charlie Mike

Sober since 1-7-14 (still a Paranoid Nutjob)
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 1, 2000
Messages
28,365
I'd like to think I'm doing that. I believe its not about money. I do this for love of the art. I do it for the relationships "forged" between artist and patron. I do it so I can have a card in my wallet that says I'm a knifemaker... In order to add some sort of legitimacy to the fact that I appear to be obsessed with evil weaponry. BUT... I do not do it to make money.

At the last show I attended, the focus seemed to be on money. Many legendary (IMHO, Bill Ruple is legendary) makers had zero interest at their tables, yet "flavor of the month" makers were surrounded by fanboys/dealers/flippers. I was quite frankly disgusted.

I believe the aura of "industry" is ruining the hobby.
 
I guess that makes you a hobbyist. People who are in business usually are trying to make money. It helps pay for things like rent and groceries.
 
It just depends on how you define "knife industry"

You can certainly choose to not be a part of what you feel are practices in any industry that are contrary to your beliefs.

What's "ruining the industry" is personal opinion, and I am sure there are many facets and angles to explore.
Personally, sticking to custom knives, the proliferation of "knife makers" who continue to pop-up on social media has done nothing more than create a bubble.

That bubble seems to have burst, if not leaking air heavily.

I think it's effected everyone. Trends like this are not sustainable, less so when they are based on nothing more than popularity as opposed to actual craftsmanship.

Very few "brands" are built in a day, but I have seen it happen a lot over the past few years. That is a sure indication to me that it's not sustainable.
 
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Charlie Mike said:
I'd like to think I'm doing that. I believe its not about money. I do this for love of the art. I do it for the relationships "forged" between artist and patron. I do it so I can have a card in my wallet that says I'm a knifemaker... In order to add some sort of legitimacy to the fact that I appear to be obsessed with evil weaponry. BUT... I do not do it to make money.

At the last show I attended, the focus seemed to be on money. Many legendary (IMHO, Bill Ruple is legendary) makers had zero interest at their tables, yet "flavor of the month" makers were surrounded by fanboys/dealers/flippers. I was quite frankly disgusted.

I believe the aura of "industry" is ruining the hobby.
Click to expand...

true in every art form.
 
JR88FAN said:
It just depends on how you define "knife industry"

You can certainly choose to not be a part of what you feel are practices in any industry that are contrary to your beliefs.

What's "ruining the industry" is personal opinion, and I am sure there are many facets and angles to explore.
Personally, sticking to custom knives, the proliferation of "knife makers" who continue to pop-up on social media has done nothing more than create a bubble.

That bubble seems to have burst, if not leaking air heavily.

I think it's effected everyone. Trends like this are not sustainable, less so when they are based on nothing more than popularity as opposed to actual craftsmanship.

Very few "brands" are built in a day, but I have seen it happen a lot over the past few years. That is a sure indication to me that it's not sustainable.
Click to expand...

I have seen it too. A lot of shadiness goes on.
 
jbmonkey said:
true in every art form.
Click to expand...

Simple eloquence and to the point truth :thumbup:

Think Thomas Kincaid in "comparison" to Vincent van Gogh *. Walk alone and walk tall Charlie Mike.


Ray


* In case I did not make myself clear I offer these two as people who LIVED and were "compensated" very differently for their productions. And - there is NO comparison.
 
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Most of the real artists were never rich - some lived and died poor, recognition came after their death most of the time. When you do something that is not meant to provide the income to pay the bills is falling in hobby department. A real artist is doing something to please him, not the potential buyer. Are all knife makers artists or they sell their skills to the buyer? A guy made a post with a very different approach on his blade right here, today. Some liked it, some said they would give 5 bucks for it in a sarcastic way and some asked if the knife is for sale. The answer was "not for sale". For me that guy is on the artist path - hobby at its best. But he is not above the rest. Or below. The world is big enough for all. Yes, you can be a knife maker outside the industry. You just have to accept what you are.
 
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One can be a part of a trade but not of an industry. I consider the concept of "industry" as "trade + networking", and there are a great many knife makers who are actually pretty isolated individuals that aren't tied into the larger industry at all.
 
I would say yes to your question. I believe the term knife maker is someone who's essence and trade is to make knives above all. This in my opinion entails finding out what works(no .5in thick stock, unfinished patches, etc..), building business, and making a knife whether by machine, hand, or something else. The industry in my opinion can and should have the elements of a knife maker but maintains a focus on selling rather than making.

The whole idea of the knife industry is one which I find repugnant as so many of them don't care about function or art but try to find a toy designed to satiate their ADD. I think the best example is the whole overbuilt titanium frame lock flipper craze which at first I enjoyed but then came to realize that few if any could cut and most were designed to be fondled than used. To make a knife that cannot cut well but can flip is not to make a knife but a toy. The industry will chase after that market but the maker will at heart continue to make designs to push the limits of a tool used for thousands of years.
 
CM I have been following knife stuff for a while and who makes it big & who doesn't still confuses me from time to time.

I have a beautiful blued damascus knife by a maker who I can't fathom why his stuff isn't more popular. Met him at BLADE and his stuff just wasn't selling. Sadly I did not see him there this year. Made me wonder if he's gone back to his old job and made knife making a hobby.

Then there are a slew of makers whose knives are in high demand and selling for quite a lot. When I'd look at their knives I couldn't figure out why they command the prices they do. At close to, or higher, than $1000 I expect better grind lines & finish than I have been seeing. I don't wish them ill, and I'm glad they're doing well, but I won't be spending their asking price.
 
As I've said in other threads, I blame Instagram. I have seen serious trends where there'll be several folks who have a LOT of followers who get their hands on some IG nobodies' Ti-slab knife drenched in mokuti with a blade that's got like six different grinds on it and they start featuring it in a bunch of shots for several days. Lots of "OH MAN BRO! SO SICK!!!" and fistbump emoticons, and the you see the guy's knives start appearing on other peoples' streams who follow that one big-number-of-followers guy, and after a week of seeing these ridiculous knives, you surf over to the maker's feed(which amazingly are usually only a few months old), and see he's selling his knives for only (!?) $600-$900.

Of course, with how many people buy those ridiculous knucks and Ti one-piece "tools"* for hundreds of dollars apiece, the fact that these IG nobodies manage to soak up so much of these peoples' (very) disposable income doesn't surprise me. That's the market today.



*99% of which are a combination prybar, knuck, bottle-opener, maaaaaybe a hole slotted through for a driver bit
 
Heck no, you don't have to be "in the industry" to be a winner. If you enjoy your hobby as an art form, for example, your finished resulting knife serves as its own reward. To look at and to hold something that YOU made is worth a whole bunch of money. It's nice if you can sell it and make enuf bucks to pay the rent, but lots of hobbies don't pay...as has been already been noted above.
And then, some of these makers have prices that are "out of sight"...but were pretty reasonable a few yrs ago when they were young in the trade. I can't afford these guys now, and their knives (now) are not significantly better than a few yrs ago when they were 1/3 of the present price.
We are swayed by the hype and we follow the herd instinct. But as buyers, we pay to learn, and it takes a while before we have a clue as to what real quality entails, or what our tastes REALLY are.
If you make a product that is perceived to be better than run of the mill, then you will make money. Of course, producing a quality product (by itself) is NOT quite enuf; you also need to secure a bunch of folks who share your dream of the real product...and will pay accordingly for it. Perhaps that second part is the more difficult of the two.
 
Halfneck said:
I have a beautiful blued damascus knife by a maker who I can't fathom why his stuff isn't more popular. Met him at BLADE and his stuff just wasn't selling. Sadly I did not see him there this year. Made me wonder if he's gone back to his old job and made knife making a hobby.
Click to expand...

Because for many people most important is logo on the blade and recent trends, not a design. If they must pay hundreds of dollars, maker must be famous because they know otherwise it will be difficult to sale if they'll need get back frozen money.

Strider can make simple SLCC and someone will buy it for $325. For that money you can buy nice 8" custom bowie [which looks like M.S. work] from some knifemakers around the world but they aren't famous.
 
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I would offer the argument that anybody who sells their knives to the public is in the "knife industry". Whether you choose to serve a niche market or a FOTM market doesn't really make a difference. In every industry there are people who stick to what they believe and others who follow the changing tides. I mean hell, look at how many different versions of some crappy phone game like candy crush there are because that game was really popular (trying to use an example many would know, I never played it just know it was popular and heavily copied). Would you say a games programmer who isn't making ice crush or koolaid crush or butterfly crush something other then a programmer?

So honestly CM, as much as you don't like the direction the industry is headed, I would argue you yourself are part of the industry, you just aren't following the lead of those trends in the industry you don't like. I don't think that is anything to be embarrassed by or ashamed of, you're just choosing to do things your way with no regard for how others are doing it. As long as you make enough money to support however much investment you have in the hobby and still have a means of making the living, be it with a "real job" or by making and selling knives doesn't really matter. As long as you are happy with where you are in life and the products you are producing, who cares what the guy next to you is doing. You're all in the industry, you're all just doing it differently.
 
I saw a single finger knuckle ring out of G10....$1,200 to $1,300.....


I've never been to a knife show. I can imagine how it could be (based in many pics).

Make what you like. Buy what you like. Use and carry what you like.



The rest will sort it's self out eventually.
 
"I just focus on my customers and keep being me and good things just keep happening."
Phill Hartsfield
 
I think the only requirement to being a knifemaker is to be a person who actually physically makes knives. The knife industry has IMHO become like the hobby of wines. Lots of people tasting things and bloviating. So that is why I do not adhere to any amount of brand loyalty and feel no responsibility to protect or promote makers in general. Charlie mike I have known you for years on this forum. And the one thing, if I know anything about you its that passion is what drives you. You are a knifemaker who could be someones friend. So when I see you talking like this I know its out of a love for all things edged. But I think what I see most in this hobby is the illusion of what you truly portray. To me its a HUGE money machine where many knife companies are trying to see what they can charge the most for while doing the least amount of work and pushing very rustic and archaic finishing methods as superlative artistic expression. All under the guise of "we are the peoples" knife company and that they want to be our friends. Its been my experience that its a private club. I have no real opposition to its existence but I want no part in it. So I am here for the love of knives and will discuss what I'm allowed to discuss. But I do agree that the knife industry has become something of a fashion statement. So I only have three rules. 1. Buy what I like. 2. Buy what I can afford. and 3. Make sure I am buying what makes me happy rather than impress and be with the in crowd. And its been great.
 
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