Is it right to charge my credit card months before shipping me my knives?

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volvi

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Question:
Is it proper and/or legal for knife makers/production companies to charge your credit card months before actually shipping you your knife order??

The reason I ask, is because this recently happened to me. I ordered a couple of knives a couple of months ago over the internet from a well known semi-production knife company, and my card was charged the same day I placed the order, and to date, no knives have arrived. I think this is improper, but is it illegal? Please advise me.

Thanks.:(
 
It's common practice to accept a order from a customer, charge the card and then backorder the product.

But, you can check the laws of the State that the seller is in or contact the "BBB" to make sure.

How many times has you contacted the seller about the status of your order ?

Are you e-mailing or calling ?

Have you made recent contact with the seller ?

Was the response from the seller ?

Generally. . .it shouldn't take several months for a dealer to obtain a production knife !

You did order several production knives. . .right ?
 
I do not believe this is wrong. If you don't mind the
company making money off of YOUR INTEREST.
 
I have been in contact with the customer service dept. of the company via e-mails. I was first told that credit cards are charged when the knives go to the shipping dept. They informed me a month ago that my knives were soon to be shipped, so they charged the card. I e-mailed the company 2 weeks later, and asked them to honestly tell me when the knives would be shipped, and if it was their company's policy to charge credit cards weeks or months before shipping out knives. They e-mailed me back and notified me that the lady that initially e-mailed me back concerning my order was filling in that day, and that she was mistaken and that my knives were not yet ready to be shipped.

I questioned them again regarding whether or not it was their company's policy to charge credit cards long before actually shipping out knives (since they didn't bother answering that question), and another lady responded via e-mail, that they do indeed charge credit cards as soon as orders are received, to protect themselves and others from credit card fraud. This is what they wrote me: "We charge the card weeks before they are shipped because there are people that call into us with other peoples credit cards and we get people that give us invalid card numbers. If we charge the cards a couple of weeks before we ship that gives people time to get their statements from the credit card company and if there happens to be a charge from us on the bill and they've never heard of us, then we need to have to time figure out why this other person is calling in with someone else's card. Believe it or not I get alot of people that try to do that. We do not have this policy to punish you or our other customers......we have this policy to protect you and our other customers! I hope you can now understand why we charge everyone's card before we ship them a product."

I ordered 2 knives, and the bill was over $400. The card was charged and the bill paid back in May. The funny thing is, that I know the owner of the company, and I am the designer of their company's logo. Their customer service dept. however doesn't know me.

I know I'll get my knives some day, I was just wondering whether it is standard practice and proper for knife companies to charge credit cards long before actually shipping out their knives.

Thanks for your replys.
 
Volvi. I got a pretty good idea the company you are talking about. They did the same thing to me. Charging the card first seems to be standard operating procedure though I didnt find any policy about this on their website. Never again. I'm not in the business of giving interest free loans.
 
I know exactly who it was also,it's the way they do business,nothing unusual,though I did have an unusual problem myself.I ended up recieving a check rather than a knife,I'm a little sore still over the 6 months interest at CC rates that cost me.I think that was an unusual circumstance though.
 
I'm no expert.but from what I understand from my cc company.There are ways to validate a cc order to help protect against cc fraud.One big way is to have shipping addresses listed in their records.Only ship to the addresses that are confirmed.The problem is the business probably doesn't want to spend time on the phone with the cc company to confirm such information.Any order not being shipped to one of the listed addresses,gets a red flag.I'd like to know what business you are talking about.Please name them as this is not only very unusual but down right wrong.If it is not well explained in their website they are wrong for doing it even more.I don't want to accidently find their site and order from people like this.I would be mighty pissed someone holding my money hostage for weeks or months before shipping my order and then I have to go calling to find out what happened.I would demand a refund and tell them to shove the knives.Don't like the risk with Credit Cards then don't accept them,or find another business to be in,no offense but this is B.S.!!!:barf:
 
I don't know who the company is, but no company should charge if it's not being shipped out the door that day, unless it's by prior arrangement.

IMO, I'd contact the CC company, reverse any charges, and not order from this company again.
I'd name them too, but that's me. :p
 
I know the company, nothing new about this practive to them. I know of dozens of folks who waited months in same situation you are in now. Since you are in contact with the Cust Serv Dept ask them to cancel your Order and refund your CC. Then when the knives are actually (physically) In Stock they can ship the knives to you and THEN rebill your Credit Card. However, this may pizz the company off and you may be dropped from the Order line up. Tough Call. Personally I never authorize a Maker or Company to charge my card and then sit back and wait... and wait... :(
 
Someone correct me if I'm worng on this - but I believe that "mail order" sales are required to be shipped by federal law within 30 days of payment unless they tell you there is going to be a delay up front. - then if you want a refungd they must give one.

Good luck! :grumpy:
 
Azwilly, I don't know if it is "law" but every credit card co. I know of provides for 30 days period from when you receive your bill for disputing a charge or filing a complaint against a vendor. I'm pretty sure I know the knife co. in question -they have a forum here, if I am correct, very popular loyal following- I know my freind ordered from them before and he was immediately charged, given "4-6 weeks delivery" but waited over 3 months. He was able to cancel thru his Visa carrier, they were understanding and flexible about the time period when he explained the situation.
It is standard procedure for many "semi-production/small shop" co. 's to do this, it is "shady" business practice- I don't know of any other type of co. who does this. I want to buy from this co., however, I have refrained for this reason-
Martin
 
I for my part do not charge till the product goes out.
I don't know who the company is, but no company should charge if it's not being shipped out the door that day, unless it's by prior arrangement.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with DaveH, but I have got orders that are different (ordering alot of knives, or just things about their order that make me wonder)these I have charged to validate the CC. Then I email the customer to let them know when their order will go out. most orders go out in a day or 2.:D
 
I think that the company in question needs to be named, so we have a chance to get both sides of the story.

I also think that charging that far in advance is wrong, and it may be against the law in some states, I'm not sure. I always ask when I buy over the phone, or I usually put a note on an online transaction asking not to bill my card until the item(s) ship. I have yet to have a problem.

Keeping the company name annonymous doesn't do the members of the forum any good. We need to know, so we can decide whether or not we want to do business with them.

They may have a logical explanation for this. Name them so they know who they are, and can explain their side, as well as letting the rest of us know who they are.
 
Call your credit card company. I dont know about state laws, but the credit card companies themselves, make merchants sign an agreement to abide by certain practices and standards. One of the most common is you dont charge cards until you ship. You could call your card company and ask, and mention that the knife company is not playing by the rules. I for one will never order from the company your not mentioning for this very reason. But I am sure they could care less. They cant make enough knives to satisfy demand, and so demand you bend over with an interest free loan to get one.
 
The company I have ordered 2 knives from is Busse Combat Knife Company. 11 days ago I received an e-mail from one of their customer service reps stating that my knives would be going out that week. They also advised me to e-mail Jerry Busse directly, if I had any questions regarding their company's policy to charge credit cards weeks in advance of shipping out the knives.

Well, to date, no knives have yet arrived. Their web site states to please allow 3-6 weeks for delivery, and we are now going on 8 weeks. I purposely did not mention the name of the company, because I did not, and still do not, want them to lose any business. I happen to believe they produce a great line of knives, although I find most of their blades too thick for my purposes. The reason I ordered 2 knives from them is because they are again starting to turn out knives with blade thicknesses of 3/16". I e-mailed Jerry Busse personally, and their customer service dept. again, and have not yet heard back from them.

As I already stated, I know that I will eventually receive my knives. I just wanted to find out if charging a customers credit card weeks or months before actually shipping them their knives is proper and legal. That is the reason I posted this thread in the first place.

Incidentally, I was talking to a knifemaker and member of the Knifemakers Guild this afternoon, and he mentioned that it is a policy of the Guild that none of their members charge any deposits from their customers when taking orders for knives. I happen to agree with that policy, and still think it highly improper for a maker or company to charge a persons credit card in full the day they receive an order for a knife.

I close by stating that I have the highest respect for Jerry Busse, his knives, and Busse Combat Knife Company; although some of their business practices are questionable to me personally. I understand that orders can sometimes take much longer to fill than anticipated, and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

:p
 
I would not worry. Sounds like some one dropped the ball.
I am sure that some one will get in touch with and Make it up to you.
Boy I have dropped the ball more than once and had to eat crow. I went by E. Emersons table and the Guild Show in Orlando to just say some thing about something to him:o
 
Guess I don't understand your motives for this post if you
>have so much respect
>can understand it takes orders longer than anticipated to ship
>like to give people the benefit of the doubt

I have ordered many products in my life that have charged me,
and not shipped when expected. I still do business with most of them, because I took the time to find out the whys (and yes, sometime it was frustrating as hell getting in touch). But hey, I do understand that sometimes **** happens, and the intent was never to do me wrong, it is JUST HOW IT TURNED OUT!

Guess some people just have to air their laundry in public.
 
Thatmguy;

Guess some people just have to air their laundry in public.
Click to expand...

Reading thru this post, I think volvi has done a good job explaining why he posted here. he has tried to get a solid answer from Busse, and has gotten nowhere. As I have stated in the yiterp thread, this forum is meant to post when you have exhausted all other possible means of resolving the problem. Posting here is NOT airing dirty laundry. Why is it so hard to understand what TGB&U forum is used for?

Originally posted by thatmguy:
I have ordered many products in my life that have charged me,
and not shipped when expected. I still do business with most of them, because I took the time to find out the whys (and yes, sometime it was frustrating as hell getting in touch). But hey, I do understand that sometimes **** happens, and the intent was never to do me wrong, it is JUST HOW IT TURNED OUT!
Click to expand...

I think we all have ordered products that have been delayed for some reason or another. What seperates the good companies from the marginal, is their explanation of said delay, and whether or not their C.S. department contacts you first, with the delay explanation.
A company cannot continue to do business based solely on their reputation, if they don't live up to that reputation thru good customer service.
Yes, **** happens, but it is the company's responsibility to keep the customer advised, with minimal hassle on the customer's part, so that no misunderstandings occur.

I for one, will be more likely to do repeat business with a company who has kept me advised thruout the ordering process, and has answered my inquiries to my satisfaction.

The companies who have excellent customer service are the ones who survive, and earn the repeat business. The companies with crappy C.S. usually sink within a short time.
 
I hope that I can chime in without being inappropriate, but I've ordered a few Busse Knives and have found the entire experience to be outstanding. On two orders I had a quick question that the customer service personnel weren't sure of. 15 minutes later Mr. Busse gave me a buzz and the question answered to completion in less than a minute.
To make a correlation, maybe: I have a custom .45 on order. As I sent in my deposit I was told that there'd be a 9 month wait. Time passed as it did for other customers and all hell broke loose (not because of me) on another forum. My 9 month wait turned into 22 months as it should be done in October. The pistolsmith took the time to call every customer personally and instill confidence and I believe that he was successful with just about everyone. He was very thoughtful, courteous and caring. He's a one man show and demand for his work went through the roof. Every call that he made, though, took him away from the bench further delaying everyone's order.
So, in closing, sometimes, I guess, there may be a trade-off between communication and getting the work done. It's possible that Busse Combat won't sacrifice quality for volume and the focus for me is often times the finished product. I run my business like an anal psychopath, but then again, I'm not a craftsman in any way. If I was and demand went out of control I'd have a problem as it's next to impossible to find help in the form of people who share my vision. My guess is that demand for Busse Knives is very high and there's a very good reason for that if that's the case.
 
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