Is it stealing?

SDS

SDS

Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,389
I have a question about using ideas seen on other makers' knives. If I see something that I like, and would like to try, is it stealing if I use it? I realize that there are some specific patterns or styles that are kind of like someones trademark or are obviously from a particular maker but aside from that is it wrong to use someone elses ideas on my own stuff?

I would like to try some things I have seen others do but I don't want to be accused of stealing ideas or taking something from someone. I'm not talking about a general style of knife or something like that. An example would be a knife that Steelshaper has for sale right now. In particular the way he stitched the sheath. I really really like copper on a knife and he used it to stitch the sheath. If I were to do the same thing, would I be a thief?

SDS
 
Etiquette within the knife community: If you see something on another maker's knives that you would like to emulate, the best policy is to contact that maker and ask them.
A couple of years ago I had a customer from Europe send me a sketch, which looked identical to Jerry Fisk's WooJack design. At first I refused to make the knife because I knew it was a design of Jerry's. After a lot of hounding by the client, I called Jerry and explained what was going on, and politely asked him if he would mind if I built the knife. He said "of course not", but thanked me for being courteous enough to ask. The finished knife was nowhere near as good as what Jerry does with that design (at least in my opinion), but the customer was thrilled, and by acquiring permission, I avoided any problems it might have created otherwise.

I have also had a number of makers contact me asking for permission to duplicate specific features of my knives, which I usually grant. I look at it from the aspect that if someone is impressed enough with something I've done to ask if they may "copy" it, then they have shown me they posses integrity. On the other side of that coin, if you copy something without asking, its usually considered stealing or an insult.
Imagine your at a show, and someone asks you about a specific feature on a knife that you copied from someone else.....Its much more respected if you were to say "I saw that on (insert name) knives, really liked it, and asked if he/she minded if I used that idea. Or you could fumble around trying to figure out what to tell the person, not knowing if they were familiar with the other maker's work, and possibly make yourself look really bad in the process.

Being respectful, and taking the time to ask is the way to go.
 
i myself dont have a problem with someone copying a knife i made if they ask first. i have patterns for almost every knife i have made. if anyone wants a pattern i will gladly email it to them. i have a few patterns that i would like to actually see duplicated by a maker here on the forum. hopefully i can talk him into it.
 
Ed, that makes perfect sense to me. Thanks.

Sam, mind if I ask what IFI is?

Although I have only finished a few knives there are a couple of them I look at when I'm done and go, dang, that looks like the one that XXXX made. I realize there are very few to no new ideas but I just didn't want to step on any toes.

Thanks again.
 
I'll second Ed's good advice there.

A couple of times, I've been in that spot, really getting excited over a feature or idea. So I sent a quick email to the maker to the effect of "Hey I'd like to try your XYZ idea on my knives, but I don't want to do it if I'd be stepping on your toes. Let me know if it's ok with you."

I got friendly responses every time.

Integrity and good manners!

Mike
 
Barkes, thanks.

I've purposely stayed away from forging for now. I kind of have this obsessive/compulsive thing and I am sure I would get totally consumed if I added yet another aspect to this knifemaking thing I try to do. So far just stock removal for me.

SDS
 
SDS said:
Barkes, thanks.

I've purposely stayed away from forging for now. I kind of have this obsessive/compulsive thing and I am sure I would get totally consumed if I added yet another aspect to this knifemaking thing I try to do. So far just stock removal for me.

SDS
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Your Wecome SDS: Just helping -------:thumbup:
 
I made a knife for a guy once, actually my blacksmithing teacher, and had a verbal agreement to make more for him in the future. He gave me an idea of what he wanted and I made the prototype and a few others. Gave him 4 to sell for me and then wound up moving. Tried to find him a for a few years to no avail. Next thing I knew the knife I designed was featured in blade magazine being made by another maker. That was a blow. I contacted the maker and found out it was not disclosed that someone else made the orig design. I wish the maker had contacted me I may have been able to save him some money as the person wound up being not very honest and stuck him for over 2k.. I felt lucky at 1k.

Chuck
 
I try not to "copy" anyone elses work but at the same time so much has been done before. There are very few things I do that I would consider original. At least when it comes to knives. I think to be nice anytime you are heavily inspired by someone you should give them props for it. Whatever you make with your hands is yours. So dont worry about it to much.
 
Unless it is a really different and unique design, it's a good bet that it's been done before! And if I had something that unique I would try to copyright or patent it. If someone copies something I did, I'll be flattered and not worry about it. There are only so many ways to vary the basic design of a knife and still have it be one. The odds of some other maker hitting upon the same "idea" is pretty damn good.

Rick
 
I agree with Ed to a degree, If you are an established custom maker and you're using designs or ideas could in any way take money out of another makers pocket then the best policy is to contact that maker and ask permission.


However most of us are amature makers who sell a few knives here and there. The idea of a guy who sells 20 or 30 knives a year calling up Bob Loveless because he want's to make a drop point hunter or a chute knife is silly.

I asked Bob Terzuola about how he feels about amature makers making exact copies of his ATCF folder. He laughed it off. He said he didn't care.

The simple fact is You don't rise to established custom maker status by making copies of other makers knives but that's how everybody starts out. .

When you first start off making knives the natural process is to copy other makers work.

When you start you have not yet aquired all the skills to to make a knife. you are in the process of self teaching. You have no confidence in your own ability and skills because you are learning.

The natural inclination is to leave as little to chance as possible. naturally you copy others designs to limit your chance of failure to your individual machanical abilities.

Eventually by the repeatitive act of making knives you will gain confidence in your individual skills and as your anxiety of your skills fades you will seek to improve your knives and makem your own. You will leave behind others designs and find your own.
 
SDS said:
I kind of have this obsessive/compulsive thing and I am sure I would get totally consumed if I added yet another aspect to this knifemaking thing I try to do.
SDS
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:D :D ROTFLMAO :D :D Thats funny SDS........ and to me, comforting ;). I have the same "issues" brother so don't feel like the lone stranger

Sorry to O.T. for a moment but this one caught my eye........too close to home I guess :)
 
Ilovetoolsteel, that makes perfect sense to me. I just didn't want to step on toes by using other peoples ideas.

David, it's the truth man! I swear I have to force myself to come in the house at night. I get the kids in bed and head to the shop and I'm out there until midnight or one o'clock. Then I make myself come in and go to bed since I have to get up for work between 5:30 and 6:00. That work thing sure gets in the way of a lot of fun.

SDS
 
SDS,

Consider yourself a knifemaker then. Your post rings so true of numerous stories I've been told, and it also rings true with me. While I was still in the military, I would put in a full day at the base, come home, and on my way to the house would be taking off my uniform top. Would go inside, put on my jeans and grab a bologna sandwich on my way out the door to the shop...where I would be until 10-12 every night. For the last 5 years of my military career, it was was getting in the way of my knifemaking career.

The obsession is evident in your post....your well past the point of ever being cured, so just go with it! :)
 
I'm trying to "go with it". It's just a long road. Thanks for all the responses and the comments.

SDS
 
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