Is it still traditional?

[Lo/Rez]

I'm going to try my hand at making a slip joint (probably a Lanny's Clip) in the next while using CPM154 and screws instead of pins. Would this still be considered a traditional knife?

 

[knarfeng]

We consider the pattern to be what defines "Traditional".
PM blade steel can be made into a traditional pattern.
As for screws, it depends on how the fit into the pattern.

Aerospace folks have an old saying about new plane designs and predicting performance, "Look good? Fly good."
In like manner, "Looks traditional? Is traditional."

(obviously the F-117 was the exception that proves the rule.)

 

[Ryouchijtx]

There are a couple custom slipjoint makers who make knives with screw together construction and I still consider them traditional. Perhaps a 'hybrid'

Jared Oeser & Enrique Peña both use them here and there. Even before both of those makers ever made theirs the original Lone Wolf made a collaboration with the late and great Bob Loveless on his City knife pattern pictured below.

To be frank, I'm not a big fan of them. My feeling are that if you build a custom knife right..you don't need screws to tighten down the tolerances for the tasks a slipjoint will endure.
The only compromise I could see is if the body of the handle was pinned together and the pivot was a screw just in case.

Lone Wolf Loveless City Knife

 

[brownshoe]

This was discussed awhile back. Some makers stepped up and said screw construction is gentler and less likely to damage expensive covers. In addition, it allowed for easy scale replacement. Some collectors and makers said making the screws point in one direction or special directions was a subtle demonstration of skill. Some collectors and makers said...traditional=pins

Personally I think a slipjoint should be pinned, but the Lonewolf Loveless City knife is one of my favorites Who's goin to argue with Loveless anyway...

 

[Pipeman]

The Miller Bros used screws at the turn of the 19th/20th century.

 

[Jack Black]

The Miller Bros used screws at the turn of the 19th/20th century.

Thank you Robin, I have been wracking my brain for the last 15 minutes trying to think which early US manufacturer used tiny screws! :thumbup:

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Pins for aesthetics, but if screws work, why not?

 

[supratentorial]

Miller Bros did use screws on some knives but only in place of pins on the covers. The pivots were pinned. Victorinox has used a riveted construction for a long time. Schrade used a Swinden key construction for a time.

I don't know of any traditional knives with screws in place of pins at the pivots. But there are benefits. Peened pivots can loosen up. Screws can be fixed with Loctite and are a bit less crude than a pin with the ends smashed. But peened pins can be finished to look integral to the bolsters.

There seems to be a growing interest in making modern knives that look similar to traditional knives. For example, the Spyderco's Chokwe may be inspired by traditional knives but it is definitely a modern knife. This trend has also influenced traditional knife makers such as GEC as well as this forum, in my opinion.

Without seeing your knife, I can't really say if I'd call it traditional or not. Either way, the knife can have merit based on the quality and the craftsmanship that went into it.

 

[Jack Black]

Miller Bros did use screws on some knives but only in place of pins on the covers. The pivots were pinned.

Oh yes indeed, and they were very small Interesting post Jake :thumbup:

 

[screened porch]

EKA has made some screw pivots. I bought one for my sister back in the seventies. I have another and have argued that it's traditional because they used a slotted screw.

 

[Ernie1980]

As said above, it's the overall pattern that decides most of all if it is a "traditional" knife. But...In my mind a folding traditional needs to either have no spring or lock (friction folder) or have a spring to keep the blade closed (lockback and slipjoint)
I personally like the idea of being able to adjust the pivot, I have had to peen too many pivot pins

 

[kspaz]

Browne and Pharr out of Atlanta used screws through the bolster.

 

[afishhunter]

I asked this question about my CRKT "Slip Kiss", which is a slip joint, two hand opening, no lock, pinned handle covers, brass "liners", and no daRn pocket clip. It has a screw pivot.

The concensus was that my "Slip Kiss" was not a traditional, because of the screw pivot.

Mods, please forgive me for mentioning that knife here in Traditionals again, but it seemed fitting and pertinent to this conversation to do so.

 

[r redden]

As Frank said I think it is the pattern "and how" the screws fit in to it that would determine if it would be traditional or not. As far as type of blade steel I don't feel that has a bearing no matter if you use D2 or 1095 or M90 or CPM154 or whatever.

 

[kspaz]

I don't think it has anything to do with screws. I think it has more to do with style of blade, locking and opening mechanism. For example, I could replace the blade of some of my Spyderco knives with a sabre blade. Then it would appear to be a traditional knife. Of course, some patterns would never be considered traditional like fantasy and tactical styles.

 

[Lo/Rez]

Thanks for all the replys. I will post some pics of the knife once it's done. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks. I ordered a milling machine to do the nail nicks (among other things) and will need to figure out how use it.

 

[r redden]

Thanks for all the replys. I will post some pics of the knife once it's done. Hopefully within the next couple of weeks. I ordered a milling machine to do the nail nicks (among other things) and will need to figure out how use it.

Absolutely can't wait to see it. By the way do you need my shipping address?

 

[r redden]

There are a couple custom slipjoint makers who make knives with screw together construction and I still consider them traditional. Perhaps a 'hybrid'

Jared Oeser & Enrique Peña both use them here and there. Even before both of those makers ever made theirs the original Lone Wolf made a collaboration with the late and great Bob Loveless on his City knife pattern pictured below.

To be frank, I'm not a big fan of them. My feeling are that if you build a custom knife right..you don't need screws to tighten down the tolerances for the tasks a slipjoint will endure.
The only compromise I could see is if the body of the handle was pinned together and the pivot was a screw just in case.

Lone Wolf Loveless City Knife

I must say that sure is puuuuurty. :thumbup:

 

[Lo/Rez]

Absolutely can't wait to see it. By the way do you need my shipping address?

LOL. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm not going to attempt bolsters just yet. I want to get the walk and talk down pat and prefer to worry about one thing at a time.

 

[Carboniferous]

EKA has made some screw pivots. I bought one for my sister back in the seventies. I have another and have argued that it's traditional because they used a slotted screw.

I'd certainly say the EKA Swede 88 is traditional and it has a screw pivot.