Is it the equipment?

O

Omega Leather Works

Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
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So you may not see things the same as me, that's a given. However, I've noticed, over the years, that the quantity and quality of newer (and experienced) makers has been getting better.

Yes, there are still the new makers that put out weird blades, but overall it seems like quality has improved quite a bit.

So my question is, why is this? Is it better equipment? More available information? People just plain trying harder?

Most of us probably have several books like "The $50 knife shop" and the like. Many of the blades from these books are nowhere near the quality of a lot of first time efforts that I see posted now. HT seems to be taken much more seriously too.

So what do you think?
 
FWIW I think it's the widespread and more accessible availability of information, and organization in the community. Resources like bladeforums set a pretty high bar, and the ABS Schools, Hammer-ins, etc.. Give people the opportunity to get hands on education that could have taken a maker decades of trail and error to figure out for themselves.

For the most part, very little equipment has significantly improved in core functionality. Yes we've got better belt grinders, and they're great, but that's practically the only semi-knifemaker's specific, item that's seen much advancement, and mostly in ways that doesn't directly change the potential results.

Modern metrology(measurement) devices do set us apart from our ancestral (pre-industrial) counterparts, and I think that's a big reason why the level of competition in the *high* end segment is so tight, since a lot of the need "intuition" regarding fit and finish can be mitigated or eliminated, but as far as the beginner segment, it's all information.

The tools may change your approach, especially when you get into the realm of CNC etc, but when it comes to handmade one off knives, the tools don't make the craftsman.
 
I see it too.


Once you have more info about materials and methods, and photos of the expected level of fit and finish some new makers will use the info and rise to the level of quality.

Some will still just sharpen a lawnmower blade and wrap it with hockey tape.


Perhaps, the new makers hone their skills until their "first knife" is a stunner before showing it.



I think fit and finish have risen over the decades.
Look at the photos in some books from the 70's 80's and so on, even a Loveless knife from that era has a somewhat rough homemade look to it.

Handmade customs that are "factory perfect" are more recent.
 
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12345678910 said:
Perhaps, the new makers hone their skills until their "first knife" is a stunner before showing it.
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This definitely occurred to me. I never showed my first knife, and never would.

On that note, if you go a few years between blades can you then consider the "new" one to be first? :D
 
I think as lot of it comes down to availability of information. A site like this with the willingness of the experienced makers sharing their tips and tricks is very helpful. My first 6 or 7 knives were made after getting some very bad advice from the web. Once I got the more accurate information, I was able to impove much more quickly than through trial and error. Seeing what is possible if you just put the effort in sets the bar pretty high compared to the garbage ingormation that is out there.
 
When I first started wanting to make knives info was hard to find. I still haven't made a actual knife but I've made several knife shaped objects. I knew going in they would be substandard at best, my tools where inadequate and it was just a simple excersise in basics. The closest I've came to actual blades are a wakisashi made out of 1060 with a barbeque grill heat treat and a very nice large bowie that cracked in heat treat. They say you can ht 1075/1080 in brine but aparently I couldn't.
It's info. If not for blade forum I would still be trying to ht with "goop" and forge in a old brake drum. Not that simple methods don't work, just my limited time is valuable to me and I want to do it at a higher level. So I spend my time drawing out and improving designs, making mockups in wood to see how handles feel and researching here. One day you will see my first blade. I hope it's acceptable.
 
The amount and quality of information on this forum is staggering! The community does a really outstanding job at helping new guys with methods but also sourcing materials and improving geometry. Its really a pleasure to be part of this great place.
 
Strigamort said:
So you may not see things the same as me, that's a given. However, I've noticed, over the years, that the quantity and quality of newer (and experienced) makers has been getting better.

Yes, there are still the new makers that put out weird blades, but overall it seems like quality has improved quite a bit.

So my question is, why is this? Is it better equipment? More available information? People just plain trying harder?

Most of us probably have several books like "The $50 knife shop" and the like. Many of the blades from these books are nowhere near the quality of a lot of first time efforts that I see posted now. HT seems to be taken much more seriously too.

So what do you think?
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I feel it a combination of the different things already mentioned. Better equipment for less, More information and loads more help from long time makers is available like here and other forums.

When I started in 1997 I bought the book, How to make custom knives. By Tim MrCreight and read it twice!

I still recommend it for a new person and refer to it myself from time to time.. The internet forums were in their infancy and I didn't even have a computer until 99-2000?

Also as mentioned I think many newer makers are holding back until that "First" knife looks good enough to show!
 
^^^ Good materials make a difference. Finding knife maker.ca allowed me to stop wasting time with crap steel. Finding the heat treat parameters, not wasting money on the wrong equipment, knowing which belts and abrasives to use etc. lets me put my energy into developing skills rather than working around using ineffective equipment. It took me three weeks to sand my first Bowie because I used the wrong sandpaper. That sort of thing isn't happening anymore.
 
I like your second summation (more available information), to answer the question. There is just no way that I could have learned as much as I did, as fast as I did, without the internet, forums like this one, and bladesmiths who are kind and willing to part with knowledge they've gained over blood, sweat, and tears. About the only thing better, I suppose, would be to be able to stand over a bladesmith's shoulder all day every day. I don't really think better equipment is doing it (at least for me it seems that better equipment is only going to raise a person's ability by so much). I do agree also, with your last assesment, that people may be trying harder. When I see what other (fairly) new knifemakers are putting out in their first efforts, it really challenges me to up my game, and to quit thinking, "this looks pretty darn good for my nth knife". Along those lines, a BIG "THANK YOU" to everyone here, especially the mods and veterans for helping us out getting started and keeping us on the right track.
 
Willie71 said:
It took me three weeks to sand my first Bowie because I used the wrong sandpaper.
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Let me guess. Garnet? :D

Ya'll are making some great points.

On a side note, Stacy, if you don't mind answering, how long have you been a mod? Do you feel that the standard is (much in some cases) higher than it was when you registered?
 
Now just how did ya'll know I was waiting to show my "first knife" until I got a knife "ready" for viewing by ya'll? {grinning}

Ken H>
 
My interest started in late '70s read books went to shows got an anvil and forge made my own grinder made a couple of knives.
It was slow going and I gave it up but not my interest. Started up again in the mid '90s
With the internet answers are instant, tools and materials are a click away, making it easy to get into and make good knives in a much shorter time.

To make outstanding knives still takes time, practice and dedication.
 
Strigamort said:
Let me guess. Garnet? :D

Ya'll are making some great points.

On a side note, Stacy, if you don't mind answering, how long have you been a mod? Do you feel that the standard is (much in some cases) higher than it was when you registered?
Click to expand...

Mastercraft wet and dry. Horrible stuff. The package is the same color as the 3m wet and dry. I couldn't figure out what was going on at first. When I got the 3m paper, I was done in an afternoon. (It was a user, so I went to 1200g, not super clean.)
 
Having just made my first knife, I think it has to do with the available information. I read the couple of books I could find in my local library, and then read as much as I could here on Bladeforums. I also think an important part is being able to ask questions. Being able to interact with world class knife makers and have them answer your questions is an absolutely invaluable tool to new guys like me.
Viewing other makers' knives and WIP's played a major role in how my first knife turned out. I took my time and figured out what I liked and didn't like, figured out the correct way to do things (thank God I bought some real knife steel) and just looked at LOTS of knives. Even though I can find a hundred things wrong with my first knife, there is absolutely NO WAY my first knife would have turned out nearly as well as it did without the wealth of information and expertise available here. Thank you everybody!
 
It's the internet.
It's You Tube.
And an unending array of high quality materials.

Help is only a Google search away.
With phone numbers.
 
It depends on a lot of variables.

How you got introduced to knifemaking, how much knowledge you had before you started, how much of a perfectionist the individual is, etc.

If somebody takes a 13 year old kid to a Blade show and points out all the blades that are hand made and points at a guy behind the table and says "that guy made these knives by hand" vs. a 13 year old kid that has grown up in his fathers machine shop for the last 5 years and has been taught about tool steels and heat treating and finishing vs. a 13 year old kid that just wants to cut worms and ants in his spare time, they will all make completely different blades/knives given the same piece of high quality steel.

Some guys that have posted 'first knives' here did the profiling, plunges and edge grind with a CNC milling machine. all I'm saying.

Personally, I thought for sure, I was the only person to make a handmade knife before I came to bladeforums.
 
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I also feel that the market is becoming more receptive to custom and handcrafted items, I see a lot more interest in higher end custom guns and knives, especially the younger crowd. This is a worldwide game, but I think in America at least, some people are becoming less attracted to cheap mass market items.

I think that it isn't too far of a stretch to think places like this have a great deal to do with it, especially where folks are exposed to knifemakers like on this forum.

More specialty tools and consumables are more easily available nowadays. I think higher visibility of these products has created a more knowledgeable buyer and broader demand.

As far as the quality, I think that it is part more info, and part more motivation, because of the huge mass of superb work that others are doing that is easily viewable in high definition, only a few clicks away.

Edit: the popularity of mail order combined with the Internet also makes it so that a new maker can drop a few hundred bucks and be outfitted to make a very high quality knife with a couple mouse clicks and a credit card. It used to be that you needed contacts, there were some business indexes used by businesses, but your average Joe wouldn't be as easily able to find ten different specialty suppliers in an evening of Web surfing, like we do now.


P. S. Sorry I forgot to respond to your email
 
Really interesting thread. :thumbup::cool:

I like the answers posted.

The information available certainly has a major impact. I don't think it's just the tutorials and WIP threads... simply the immediate exchange of ideas. Thirty years ago a knife maker showed up at a show with something he came up with, and it would be seen by show visitors. It might be published somewhere, and if so, people would see it several weeks or months later.

Now he shows it on a forum before the show, and 10,000 people see it before the show even starts. At least 6.793 of those 10,000 guys want to try doing it themselves. ;)


And the tools don't hurt!!! :) With many aspects of crafting a knife, fancier tools simply make certain steps faster... not necessarily easier. Nor do tools typically allow you to do something that is otherwise impossible. For instance, I can get a forged ricasso flat with a file and sandpaper on a granite surface plate, I can do it faster with the 9" disc, and I can do it even faster with my surface grinder ;) :D


***edited to add- One of the finest makers in the world, Larry Fuegen, doesn't even have a mill drill. Larry is simply a true MASTERSMITH. But on the other end of the spectrum... CNC equipment does not operate itself. There is no magic "make a knife" button. Our very own Nathan Carothers is a prime example of a master craftsman that utilizes CNC equipment to make a living making extremely high quality products.

Like they say, "It's the guy at the fire..." :)
 
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